Put C9 on a Range! (Part 2)

This seemed to be popular last time, so I'm bringing it back. These hands are all against fish, since we're in the learning poker section.

Lets play a game. In this game, I will post 3 hands that I've recently played. You try to put me on a range of hands. The person who comes the closest in all 3 instances wins a romantic date with Zachvac. Prize is non-negotiable. If you guess my exact hand, you may even get lucky.

Give your answers in the following form:

(Range) - Most likely Hand

example: (KT+, 88-JJ, Flushes Q high or better) - KQ

In all of these hands I think I took a fairly sane line, so there's no crack-headed goofiness going on. So they should be somewhat easy.

Hand #1

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

BB: $202.50 (202.5 bb)
UTG: $35.20 (35.2 bb)
MP: $187.30 (187.3 bb)
Hero (CO): $525.85 (525.9 bb)
BTN: $200 (200 bb) 28/19/32%(2.1), read: station postflop
SB: $220.15 (220.2 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Xx Xx
2 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($8.50) J♦ 6♠ 3♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $6.75, BTN calls $6.75

Turn: ($22) A♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $16.25, BTN calls $16.25

River: ($54.50) 2♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $37.75 (What is Hero's Range?)


Hand #2

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

UTG: $416.45 (416.5 bb)
MP: $184.30 (184.3 bb)
CO: $95.14 (95.1 bb) 52/4/36%(2.5) Fish
Hero (BTN): $386.68 (386.7 bb)
SB: $260.40 (260.4 bb)
BB: $89.85 (89.9 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with Xx Xx
2 folds, CO calls $1, Hero raises to $4.50, 2 folds, CO calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) 8♣ 10♥ 5♣ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($10.50) 5♥ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $8, CO calls $8

River: ($26.50) 4♣ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $23 (What is Hero's Range?)


Hand #3

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

UTG: $117.10 (117.1 bb)
MP: $242.91 (242.9 bb) 57/13/26%(0.9) fish
Hero (CO): $251.87 (251.9 bb)
BTN: $99.40 (99.4 bb)
SB: $165.80 (165.8 bb)
BB: $256.35 (256.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Xx Xx
UTG folds, MP calls $1, Hero raises to $5, BTN folds, SB calls $4.50, BB folds, MP calls $4

Flop: ($16) 9♣ K♦ 7♥ (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $6, Hero raises to $23, SB folds, MP calls $17

Turn: ($62) 6♣ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $51.25, MP calls $51.25

River: ($164.50) K♣ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks (What is Hero's Range?)

gotta go to work but ill be back for this tonight. Copied it so i cant see everyone elses responses.

Thanks C9, def something i struggle with.

Hand 1

(Ax, broadway, any pair) -AJ

Hand 2

since both of these are have been CO/Button situations, I think your range is the same.

(Ax, broadway, any pair)-KJ both clubs

Hand 3-

Range is a bit tighter, earlier position, so make the broadways suited, and make the Ax A8 + (against the fish)

(A8+, suited broadway, any pair) -A9 not clubs

#1
A/10+
#2
Two face cards, JT+, clubs
#3
KJ+, checking behind afraid of a flush

#1 (74+, 22+) - Kc4s

#2 (74+, 22+) - Jd7h

#3 (74+, 22+) - 8s9s

The first two were obviously crazy bluffs on your part, and I'm afraid you might be betting the third hand for value?

Could be totally wrong here but i'll put in my 2cs, and add a bit about my thought process as well. Just plugged hands into pokerstove and then took away hands that i didnt think would play the same on each street.

Hand 1
Its 200bb effective deep so the opening range in the CO will be huge, i included a lot of sc's and suited 1 gappers, plus suited aces etc hands with good implied basically plus the usual premiums.

Bets river w/ AA,66,33,JJ,AJs,54s - AJ

Hand 2
This hand i think the opening ranges are going to be considerably tighter b/c of the CO's ss, in the end i narrowed it down to 2 hands, the check on the flop eliminated a lot of the big premiums and when villain checks the turn we can rule out an 8 or a ten from him, so..... and this may be a moment of pure genius or a dumb idea.... but i think we've either got 77 or 99, i'm going to go for 99.

Hand 3
Back to deeper poker so the range on the CO is again very wide, i seen the 3bet on the flop and then firing again on the turn as a clue to what we've got, that means strength so i was thinking KK+,99,77,97s but then the check on the river... i think AA b/c theres no value in firing again on the river with AA but every hand i thought would double barrel the turn would def bet again on the river, its specualtive but AA

I hope i don't look like a dumb ass now, god loves a trier though lol

orangepeeleo said:

I hope i don't look like a dumb ass now, god loves a trier though lol

Click to expand...

Your answers are the only ones that are even remotely close...

1.
Sets,AJ,AdKx,Adxd,any diamond SC- Adxd

2.
66-TT,A5, and maybe a few combos of flushes that check behind the flop?- A5

3.
Im totaly lost here. I guess Peeleo had a good idea with AA but i dno.
A9,TT-QQ(But i dont think u will raise the flop here with a underpair IP :S so im probably way of),A9,89s-A9

Hand 1 - (sets, AJ, AdTd+) - AdKd

You're obviously not barrelling every street on a bluff against a calling station, though with nut flush draw + two overs you'd be a favourite on the flop against something like top pair and it's a good chance you're good with TPTK on the turn, so I can see AdKd taking that line.

It's the river bet that makes me think this is more likely AdKd (or similar) than AJ as we've gotta figure we're getting called by a station and flush draws make up a decent chunk of his range. Also IDK, it looks like more of a value sized bet than it does a blocking bet or something that wants the villain to fold.

Plus other people already guessed AJ and I wanted to be different

Hand 2 - (A5, 54, 44-TT) - 54

Position makes me think you can be raising pretty wide preflop. Like orangepeeleo said, I think the check on the flop makes it pretty unlikely you're holding an overpair. You might choose to play a set that way, but I think that more often than it probably gets bet.

4c on the river isn't a real pretty card unless you're holding 54 or 44, so I'm thinking you've probably got one of those to be betting just shy of the pot size on the river? There's too much stuff that beats 77 or 99.

I see 54 as being kinda the obvious choice - you've tried to take down the blinds, been called, shut down with BPWK, woken back up again with trips then backed into valuetown on the river. 44 would be my second choice. Though I'm probably way off.

Hand 3 - (AA, AT-AQ) - AA

I've got very similar thoughts to orangepeeleo on this one. The club on the river can't have been a big enough scare card to shut down with AK because worse kings and maybe even other pairs still call us plenty. And we're probably not facing a straight, because surely the villain puts us on a big hand and raises the turn when he hits that?

This could be a failed bluff (the AT-AQ part of the range), but I think it's most likely AA - the line makes perfect sense to the river, but once the second king falls there's pretty much no way a bet gets called by worse so checking behind makes sense.

Flopped sets made a boat on the river and there's no way they get checked behind because any king (not to mention other stuff) calls us way too often.

1.) (sets, Ax, 45s+, KJ, QJ)-45s

2) (a5,99,axcc,k5s,qj,qjs)-a5



3.) (1010-AA,j10s, A9,97s)-97s

I've intentionally not read any of the replies, so here's my take fwiw...

Hand #1:

Because the villain is a calling station and from the look of his stats probably not the super terrible will-call-down-with-bottom-pair type. You are deep and opening from the CO so your preflop range is quite wide. However, postflop it narrows.

After the flop/turn action I'm putting you on a range something like: AJ, A6, A3, Axd, sets (AA/JJ/66/33) and maybe 45.

Your bet sizing on the end looks like a reasonably sized value bet that you expect your station to call, so you have something good. That river card brought in absolutely every conceivable draw and those draws should make up a good chunk of villains range. I'm putting you most likely on AK or AQ of diamonds, and you made quite reasonable bets with it the whole way down.

The problem with sets/straight/2 pair hands is that they are way behind 2 diamonds and 2 diamonds is going to make up a good portion of the station's range. I'll put sets/straight/Top 2 pair in your range but i'm weighting them less than the flush*.

(Axd, AA, JJ, 45, 66, 33, AJ) - AQd

*I'm going on the assumption that the station isn't bad enough to call a river bet like that on that board with JQ or something here.


Hand #2:

fish is the type that limps in almost half his hands, so you are going to want to isolate with position reasonably often to extremely often. How often and with what depend somewhat on his postflop tendancies though which you didn't say anything about.

You checked the flop behind which is interesting... I don't expect you to do that with most stuff that hits that flop hard as I would expect you to be going for value anywhere you can as sets/overpairs are afraid of the draws and draws would want to semi-bluff. It's conceivable that you have something like 99 or TJ and decided a check behind to see what the turn brought and for pot control could make sense given how stationy the villain is or isn't postflop.

However...given all that, it looks like the 5 on the turn helped you.

The river again brings in every possible draw and the fish checks it to you a 3rd time, generally indicative of a not very strong holding.... I'd expect the fish to have a random T or 8 or a busted draw like 9J fairly often unless he raises your river bet. He likely will pay you off with his T's and 8's as well.


(44, 45, 56, A5, T9/TJ/TQ/TK/AT, 99) - 45


Hand #3

Both are deep, fish again likes to limp a ton preflop although this fish raises more often so it's safe to assume he mainly raises his "good" hands.

You could be iso raising him extremely wide again here preflop.

You re-raised preflop 3 ways on a relatively dry board... SB goes away which simplifies things and villain just called meaning he's probalby not super strong.

I expect you to raise here most likely with sets, as well as with a straight draw and quite possibly TPTK or AA. So on the flop your range is (AA, AK, KQ, KK, 99, 77, 8T) Maaybe a 2 pair hand like 79, though i'm going to assume you didn't iso raise K9 here although against this villain you certainly could.

You bet the turn hard after being checked too...looks like a good hand that is somewhat vulnerable. Fish calls so he's going to have something... either draw or Kx most likely. The turn does bring in the straight draws.

The river both pairs the K and brings in the backdoor flush meaning a straight could now be losing and AA is extremely vulnerable.

Villain checks however which is quite odd if that card helped him as there is a high chance it did. You checked behind as well meaning you have a hand with showdown value but that could easily be behind and wouldn't be able to call a c/r therefore anything that just made a full house is out.

I'm going to say: (8T, 79, AK, KQ, AA) - It's close between AA and 8T and I'll say AA... 8T beats most of his Kings and given he checked you could possibly get some value out of betting it. Although I could easily see checking behind with it also.

Responding without having read any responses at the request of c9:

c9h13no3 said:

Hand #1

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

BB: $202.50 (202.5 bb)
UTG: $35.20 (35.2 bb)
MP: $187.30 (187.3 bb)
Hero (CO): $525.85 (525.9 bb)
BTN: $200 (200 bb) 28/19/32%(2.1), read: station postflop
SB: $220.15 (220.2 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Xx Xx
2 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($8.50) J♦ 6♠ 3♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $6.75, BTN calls $6.75

Turn: ($22) A♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $16.25, BTN calls $16.25

River: ($54.50) 2♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $37.75 (What is Hero's Range?)

Click to expand...

Well with a station on the button your range should be a bit narrower, but then again you're c9 so idk for sure whether you're going to actually raise less. Anyway flop bet against a station is rarely a FD as you have no FE. I can see you firing flop with some flush draws though still, and certainly 45d, AKd/AQd as well as 6x of diamonds (I guess 56/67/maybe 68d). For pure value you have all Jx hands (JT/J9/QJ/KJ/AJ), overpairs, probably even 77-TT, all sets. Not sure whether you fire with overcards but I think there's a decent chance you might since against a calling station he may be calling with naked draws so A or K high is actually good and obviously have 6 outs to improve against almost everything that's ahead right now.

Turn is where it gets interesting. If it wasn't a station, it would be the perfect card to barrel and I would expect him to do it with 100% of flush draws. But it's a station. Even still it does give us some FE so I expect him to continue firing with all combo draws as well as Ax hands. I'm not sure how often you fire turn with Jx just because even against a station it's a bit thin, but I'm sure just because the station will probably call all flush drawsand possibly even flopped 2nd pair or 77-TT. This is kinda made irrelevant by the river action though.

River obviously you're firing all flopped flush draws that hit. I also think you can fire Ax here just because his hand looks so much like QJ or something, but you may bet a bit smaller for that. Also you fire all sets/2-pair for value.

Range: {45d/56d/67d/68d/33/66/JJ/AA/AJ+}

Most likely hand just because of card combos and uncertainty on some other hands with bet sizing: AK

c9h13no3 said:

Hand #2

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

UTG: $416.45 (416.5 bb)
MP: $184.30 (184.3 bb)
CO: $95.14 (95.1 bb) 52/4/36%(2.5) Fish
Hero (BTN): $386.68 (386.7 bb)
SB: $260.40 (260.4 bb)
BB: $89.85 (89.9 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with Xx Xx
2 folds, CO calls $1, Hero raises to $4.50, 2 folds, CO calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) 8♣ 10♥ 5♣ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($10.50) 5♥ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $8, CO calls $8

River: ($26.50) 4♣ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $23 (What is Hero's Range?)

Click to expand...

This is an extremely weird hand. This is a super-drawy board so you expect villain to call a lot yet you check back. That's not too surprising because you do it with most air but what air got there on the turn/river? I certainly think you bet a 5 for value/protection and you bet sets/2-pairs/Tx 100% of the time and should be betting 8x 100% too. But you check, and this confuses me. The first thing that comes to mind is 5x and it seems to fit perfectly. But I would think on this flop you would actually even bet the 5 for value/protection. I guess if you do check back sometimes I'd have to give you credit for checking back a 5, although I still think that'd be pretty bad against a station on this board. And then the huge river bet makes no sense either. Maybe if he's enough of a station he calls a pot bet with any pair after you check back flop? I just think even with 5x you'd want to bet a bit less on that river, partly because a flush is definitely in his range but more importantly because it may allow him to make a hero fold of an 8. He probably still doesn't fold a T though.

The one thing is though that a flush is 100% not in your range. If you don't bet flop you never bet that turn with a flush draw in position. Or at least you shouldn't. Especially after checking back flop he calls almost everything on that turn and you have basically no FE. And if you have a strong enough draw that you don't mind a call you definitely would have bet flop.

So I guess I feel pretty confident that your range is exclusively 5x just because even though I'd bet less even with 5x, you definitely bet less on the river getting thin value with Tx. And actually the one hand that makes the most sense is actually 45. With a boat you obviously do pot it, just not sure whether to say it's most likely just because of card combos and boats being hard to make.

range: {45/56/A5}
Most likely hand: 45

c9h13no3 said:

Hand #3

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

UTG: $117.10 (117.1 bb)
MP: $242.91 (242.9 bb) 57/13/26%(0.9) fish
Hero (CO): $251.87 (251.9 bb)
BTN: $99.40 (99.4 bb)
SB: $165.80 (165.8 bb)
BB: $256.35 (256.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Xx Xx
UTG folds, MP calls $1, Hero raises to $5, BTN folds, SB calls $4.50, BB folds, MP calls $4

Flop: ($16) 9♣ K♦ 7♥ (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $6, Hero raises to $23, SB folds, MP calls $17

Turn: ($62) 6♣ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $51.25, MP calls $51.25

River: ($164.50) K♣ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks (What is Hero's Range?)

Click to expand...

First off on this semi-dry flop I think the flop raise means absolutely nothing. He donks less than half pot and almost never has a hand. After he calls though I think he has a lot of weak kings, 9x, maybe 7x, or possibly an oesd. He basically checks his entire range on that turn then you bet relatively big. If he had T8 he just got there and he never folds Kx. He probably folds 7x and even most 9x hands to the turn bet. If he did call flop with 68 he still calls here probably because he has an oesd and he hit a pair.

Anyway now to hero's range. River rules out Kx pretty much along with sets. But the turn is almost always for value. So you're vbetting kinda thin since you can't have a K or set. The one thing that actually does make a lot of sense is 2-pair hands. River counterfits it so obv you just check rather than try to turn it into a bluff. I think 67/69/79 are all legitimately in your range. Then possibly the strong 9's you're going for value with but then on the other hand you probably bet turn a bit smaller because it's a fish and balancing bet sizes against fish is dumb. idk maybe we can include A9 in your range.

Range: {A9/67/69/79}
Most likely hand: A9

After reading the comments I realize on hand #3 I neglected overpairs. AA is definitely in your range here as well.

Alright, we had some good answers, and some non-good answers.

The one thing that I noticed is you guys don't realize is how thin I v-bet against fish. When you're playing a wide range preflop, you're going to make a lot of medium strength hands, and you gotta find ways to bet those for value (since fish are hard to bluff). Plus, when you have an aggressive image, fish are going to call you down lighter. But anyways...

Here's the range I'd give for myself:

c9 said:

Hand #1

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

BB: $202.50 (202.5 bb)
UTG: $35.20 (35.2 bb)
MP: $187.30 (187.3 bb)
Hero (CO): $525.85 (525.9 bb)
BTN: $200 (200 bb) 28/19/32%(2.1), read: station postflop
SB: $220.15 (220.2 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Xx Xx
2 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, 2 folds

Flop: ($8.50) J♦ 6♠ 3♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $6.75, BTN calls $6.75

Turn: ($22) A♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $16.25, BTN calls $16.25

River: ($54.50) 2♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $37.75 (What is Hero's Range?)

Click to expand...

Against a station, I fire 3-barrels here with Jx, Ax that I c-bet. I probably don't fire 3 with a flush draw against a station, so I think all flushes that don't have pairs in them check the turn.

(Jx with Q kicker or better, all aces, ace high flush draws, sets, overpairs) - A♣ 5♣

Villain called with JT.

c9 said:

Hand #2

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

UTG: $416.45 (416.5 bb)
MP: $184.30 (184.3 bb)
CO: $95.14 (95.1 bb) 52/4/36%(2.5) Fish
Hero (BTN): $386.68 (386.7 bb)
SB: $260.40 (260.4 bb)
BB: $89.85 (89.9 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with Xx Xx
2 folds, CO calls $1, Hero raises to $4.50, 2 folds, CO calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) 8♣ 10♥ 5♣ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($10.50) 5♥ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $8, CO calls $8

River: ($26.50) 4♣ (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $23 (What is Hero's Range?)

Click to expand...

It should be pretty obvious I have a five in this hand. 5x is the only hand I would check back the flop with that would bet the turn & river. On this flop, I'd only check back 5's against this fish. I think I get called by a lot of draws that have good equity against me when I c-bet bottom pair, so I check it back to get closer to showdown & gain some equity against the draws. Sorta like BA/WB.

In position, I likely have a lot of 5's in my range too.

(A5, K5s, Q5s, 85s-35s) - K♦ 5♦

Villain called with J8.

c9 said:

Hand #3

Ultimate Bet, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

UTG: $117.10 (117.1 bb)
MP: $242.91 (242.9 bb) 57/13/26%(0.9) fish
Hero (CO): $251.87 (251.9 bb)
BTN: $99.40 (99.4 bb)
SB: $165.80 (165.8 bb)
BB: $256.35 (256.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Xx Xx
UTG folds, MP calls $1, Hero raises to $5, BTN folds, SB calls $4.50, BB folds, MP calls $4

Flop: ($16) 9♣ K♦ 7♥ (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $6, Hero raises to $23, SB folds, MP calls $17

Turn: ($62) 6♣ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $51.25, MP calls $51.25

River: ($164.50) K♣ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks (What is Hero's Range?)

Click to expand...

I bet all trips or better on the river here. I would never check back KT or worse against a fish. So this is just a question of what I'd raise the flop with & bet the turn with.

And even though there might be value in betting a 9 on the turn, I think the 6 would probably cause me to shut down, since 67, 96, T8 got there.

In this hand, I had aces, and I think 2 pair that got counterfeited on the river is the only other hand that makes sense.

(97s, AA) - A♥ A♠

orangepeeleo said:

Hand 3
Back to deeper poker so the range on the CO is again very wide, i seen the 3bet on the flop and then firing again on the turn as a clue to what we've got, that means strength so i was thinking KK+,99,77,97s but then the check on the river... i think AA b/c theres no value in firing again on the river with AA but every hand i thought would double barrel the turn would def bet again on the river, its specualtive but AA

I hope i don't look like a dumb ass now

Click to expand...

Yey , I dont look like a dumb ass

c9h13no3 said:

A♣ 5♣
K♦ 5♦
A♥ A♠

Click to expand...

MainEventOrBust said:

#1 (74+, 22+) - Kc4s

#2 (74+, 22+) - Jd7h

#3 (74+, 22+) - 8s9s

The first two were obviously crazy bluffs on your part, and I'm afraid you might be betting the third hand for value?

Click to expand...

I was obviously closest. I'm gonna pass on the date with Zach (assuming he is a dude), feel free to award it to the first woman to reply in this thread that wants it.