The Buy In.. What amount?

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detourglr

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Some people say you always buy in for the Minimum... Some people say you always buy in for the maximum.. So my question to you is.. What do you buy in for and what is the reason why ou do that?
 
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detourglr

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Ok I have ask the question and now I will say what I do.
I always buyin for the minimum with at least 40 BB (Big Blinds). The reason I do this is for several reasons. Of course my question pertain to the No Limit side of things.
First of all I feel if I lose a hand that someone sucks out on me. it is easier to earn that money back. At the casino near me I always buy in for $80 at the NL (minimum is $75) At the Maximum I found it hard to make enough profit to earn back the $300 ($300 in the max)
Also too I have a rule I will rebuy 2x after the first buyin. After that I go home. Which gives me 3x in case a bad streak of cards. So going with the Min of $80 so $240 is a bad night.. where buying in the max is $900 My bad night of cards. So $240 is a lot easier to win back than lets say $900.
Also another thing I do is when my stack reaches the double up spot. I make the decision to quit or go on. if I feel I am the sucker at the table I will walk.. but if I can win more money at the table I will continue. Most of the time I continue..
 
Arjonius

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If you lose more big pots than you win, it may seem to make sense to limit how much they can cost you. However, this might also be indicative of a meaningful leak in your game, in which case a far better solution would be to fix it.

Otoh, if you win more big pots, then it's probably more profitable to have more money on the table. While your losses will be larger, so will your wins, and you'll end up with more in your pocket.
 
micromachine

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Buy in for the max so you have all the fish covered and you can win the maximum when you have the nuts.
 
AlfieAA

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people who buy in for 40bb's just ruin the game imo
 
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detourglr

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people who buy in for 40bb's just ruin the game imo
well I fogot to mention that most people at my casino buy in for $100..
However I have heard poeple say this that shortstackers ruin the game. However I havent heard a good reason why it ruins the game except for the people that buyin for the max and want everyone else tyo do the same.
However I do think if you are a best player at the table you want to buy in for the max. it is an advantage to have a bigger stack. Just I feel when you are first coming to the table you have no idea where you stand untill you play some rounds.
but at the same time I dont like the rule of you can buy in for the biggest stack at the table. I have seen some 1-2 or 1-3 all of a sudden play like a 2-5 or 5-10 becuase of this rule.
 
AlfieAA

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well I fogot to mention that most people at my casino buy in for $100..
However I have heard poeple say this that shortstackers ruin the game. However I havent heard a good reason why it ruins the game except for the people that buyin for the max and want everyone else tyo do the same.
However I do think if you are a best player at the table you want to buy in for the max. it is an advantage to have a bigger stack. Just I feel when you are first coming to the table you have no idea where you stand untill you play some rounds.
but at the same time I dont like the rule of you can buy in for the biggest stack at the table. I have seen some 1-2 or 1-3 all of a sudden play like a 2-5 or 5-10 becuase of this rule.



Playing live is different to online....we cant all afford the full buy ins for brick and mortar, but if you are playing 2nl online and you buy in for 0.80c then that just ruins the game......if you are going to do something, then do it properly and atleast buy in for 100bbs
 
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detourglr

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I do the same on both Online and brick and mortar.. That way I play the same... I use online poker as my practice for my brick and mortar. Also There is a big difference playign a stack at 40bb and a stack at 100BB.

I keep records of my poker play... I have thought about doing an experiment and see what my results are in buying in at 40bb and then playing at 100bb.. so see what changes there are.
Was anyone else ever done this
 
micromachine

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Your strategy should be very different when buying in for 40bb or 100bb
 
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detourglr

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If you lose more big pots than you win, it may seem to make sense to limit how much they can cost you. However, this might also be indicative of a meaningful leak in your game, in which case a far better solution would be to fix it.

Otoh, if you win more big pots, then it's probably more profitable to have more money on the table. While your losses will be larger, so will your wins, and you'll end up with more in your pocket.
I would agree with you on this Arjonius.. I do feel I play better with a shorter stack than a big stack. I noticed this in tournament and then started buying in for shorter amounts. And after I did that. My winrate was a lot better.
 
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I usually buy in in mid range, between min & max, whatever I feel comfortable
 
Arjonius

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Playing live is different to online....we cant all afford the full buy ins for brick and mortar, but if you are playing 2nl online and you buy in for 0.80c then that just ruins the game......if you are going to do something, then do it properly and atleast buy in for 100bbs
If you can't afford the full buyin, then why are you playing?

As for shortstacking, I don't do it, but outside of friendly games, it's not a concern that I'd ruin the game for the other players. When people say this, part of the reason is that it takes them outside their comfort zones, which they dislike. But if I'm a good shortstacker, I want them to feel uncomfortable - just not enough that it leads the weak players to leave.
 
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detourglr

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If you can't afford the full buyin, then why are you playing?

As for shortstacking, I don't do it, but outside of friendly games, it's not a concern that I'd ruin the game for the other players. When people say this, part of the reason is that it takes them outside their comfort zones, which they dislike. But if I'm a good shortstacker, I want them to feel uncomfortable - just not enough that it leads the weak players to leave.
But I feel the weak players, At least what I seen are the one that what you say buy in short. I think it makes the better players more of a disadvantge.
As more buying in minimum I dont think hurts the game, Hurts the better players of making a better profit I will agree. If it was bad for the game I think the casino would raise the minimum buyin..
 
youregoodmate

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Buy in for the max so you have all the fish covered and you can win the maximum when you have the nuts.

Short, simple and very true ^

Unless you are a short stack guru, buying in full will always be more profitable (assuming you are profitable)
 
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detourglr

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Short, simple and very true ^

Unless you are a short stack guru, buying in full will always be more profitable (assuming you are profitable)
I seem to be more profitable playing at 40BB than at 100BB.. Most times I feel like I am not the best player at the table, but most times I am not the worst either. There been times I wish I had more chips than times I am glad I didnt. and even with the fish I been sucked out on and find too hard to make up the max at the casino. Not so much as players ability... but rather game play at my local casino seems tighter than most.
$75 in min.. $300 is max.
 
domeburglar

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sometimes i judge my buyin by the table but for the most part i try to buy in right around 100bb now if everyone at the table is deepstacked than id def buy in the max but i feel comfortable with 100bb and feel it makes the suckouts hurt less but still enough that im happy if i get a double up
 
vinylspiros

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if you dont feel comfortable buying in with 100 BB in fear of losing them,your playing at the wrong limits. maximum buy in i s a MUST in cash if u ask me.
 
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detourglr

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Actually what I have read this theory is wrong.. They say you should always buy in for the minimum and study the players at the table and then if you feel confident you should buy more chips to the max..
 
vinylspiros

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Actually what I have read this theory is wrong.. They say you should always buy in for the minimum and study the players at the table and then if you feel confident you should buy more chips to the max..
yea sure,i dont disagree with that.I, personally ,like to have max buy in so that when i have the stone cold nuts or a very good hand i want to get max value.problem is this works vice versa. losing 100 BB is as easy as winning them.but i still always go for the max buy in.
 
Arjonius

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Actually what I have read this theory is wrong.. They say you should always buy in for the minimum and study the players at the table and then if you feel confident you should buy more chips to the max..
Who are "they"? And why is what they say best for you even if it works for them?
 
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detourglr

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Who are "they"? And why is what they say best for you even if it works for them?
Cardplayer "Jonathon Duhamel Issue" Volume 23 Issue 24 Pg74.
At no-limit, buy in for the minimum:​
Many of my friends who play no-limit
are macho types. They always believe
that they fi gure to be the best player
at the table, and they always buy in for
the table maximum so that they can
win the most money.
When playing with strangers, this
can be an error. You have no idea
who the excellent players are and
who are less-skilled. So, always buy
in for the minimum while you assess
the table. This may take some time,
as showdowns are rarer in no-limit,
but eventually you’ll be able to make
a reasonable determination regarding
who is a threat and who is a target.
Now, look at the stack sizes of the
two groups. If the targets’ stacks are
deep, buy more chips. If the tougher
players’ stacks are deep, you can stay
short. Remember, you can always add
chips to your stack, up to the table
maximum, but you can never take
chips away.
Yes, if it turns out that you are the
best player, you may have lost a bit of
an opportunity. But if the opposite is
true, you may have saved yourself a
lot of chips when misreading one of
the better players.​
 
GOTHEART

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I always buy-in for double the minimum. After monitoring the players and observing their play, along with the knowledge of How I am Running, I sometimes buy in for more.

And sometimes, I do not!

I think everyone should do what makes them comfortable.
 
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maxima191

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You can start by playing micro stakes SnG's and tourneys then move up to a higher level when ready.
 
Arjonius

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Cardplayer "Jonathon Duhamel Issue" Volume 23 Issue 24 Pg74.
The quote is unattributed, so I can't tell whose advice it is. In any case, it applies to a situation where you have no idea of your opponents skills, and thus of your relative ability.

But how often is that actually so? In my case, when I sit at a cash table, even if I don't recognize anyone, I know I'm almost certainly +EV because in the long term, I've won at every level I've ever played. The chance I'll land on a table stacked with good players I don't recognize is minimal.

In addition, you can table select. This isn't necessarily limited to looking for weak tables. Even a table that's strong overall can be quite profitable if there are one or two big enough fish and you get decent position. You want to cover them, and you simply avoid and/or pot control vs the good players.
 
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detourglr

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article was written by Barry Tanenbum and it was a 6 part (I think) series on the topic of how to begin a session..
but what you wrote below you know most of the players.. thisarticle is when you sit at the table and you dont know anyone.. Then are you sit and see how they play you can buy more chips. So I would say this doesnt peertain to you as you know the players at your level or where you play at.
The quote is unattributed, so I can't tell whose advice it is. In any case, it applies to a situation where you have no idea of your opponents skills, and thus of your relative ability.

But how often is that actually so? In my case, when I sit at a cash table, even if I don't recognize anyone, I know I'm almost certainly +EV because in the long term, I've won at every level I've ever played. The chance I'll land on a table stacked with good players I don't recognize is minimal.

In addition, you can table select. This isn't necessarily limited to looking for weak tables. Even a table that's strong overall can be quite profitable if there are one or two big enough fish and you get decent position. You want to cover them, and you simply avoid and/or pot control vs the good players.
 
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