Building a Bankroll from scratch?

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thatgreekdude

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Can not seem to build a bankroll to save my life, i'll usually cash in a freeroll for around about $10 then i'll play 0.01 0.02 cash i'll run good and maybe get my bankroll up to around $20 but then i'll lose some and when you're playing with such a small bankroll it is so hard to deal with the down swings because each time you buy in you're literally buying in for 10-20% of your total roll, does anybody have any advice? any at all? thankyou
 
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spstevens

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I have done it twice and it is very tough, at first your bankroll management is determined by variance alone as you have no buy ins to work with.

It seems that both times I succeeded I went on a heater and clawed my way to about $100.00 or so at which point I was able to survive some variance and carefully build from that. I never played above my limits during the first stages.

It really is a labor of love or pride as a quick deposit will jump start you 6 months of building in the twinkling of an eye.

Good luck on your quest.
 
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spstevens

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I also went bust many times at that $10.00 to $20.00 bankroll stage and started again from scratch , frustrating but inevitable .
 
suby_rafael

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Bankroll Management

The trick is when you win something in a freeroll say 10 $ don't start playing or grinding on cash tables immediately. Forget about cash games. If you have 10 $ play the sit n go's. Best one for 10 $ bankroll is the 360 player 10 cents turbo. where the first place gets around 7 bucks. You have to keep grinding that and when you reach a much higher bankroll say 50 $ then you can start playing the 50 cent sit n go's 360 players where the first place gets 33 bucks.

Notice both the sit n go's has the potential to increase your bankroll by more than 50 percent for the very first time. I know it's difficult to ship it but if you grind daily you can achieve to make a decent bankroll. then you can try small stakes cash and small buyin mtt's. But for starters just grind these sit n go's and make a decision like you'll never play a single session of cash game unless your bankroll reaches a specific point and stick to that decision no matter what.:albertein
 
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Just cut the crap and deposit $60, save yourself 6 months of grinding for pennies.
 
Arjonius

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You need to improve you cash game. Don't fool yourself that the main reason you haven't been able to build your BR is because you were on a short one. BRM doesn't prevent losing players from going broke. Let's say you lost $100 in total. If you had started with a $100 BR, the most likely case scenario is that you would have lost it all anyway. It just would have taken longer.
 
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What Arjonius is saying has some truth in it. Of course these bankrolls can take little variance, but you have to look at your play above all that.

I also recommend playing some cheap Sit n Go's and mix in some good payed freerolls there as well. It seems like a hassle, but that's the safest way to grind up. Hope I helped.
 
transformpoker

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Building a bankroll from scratch is a bit of an awkward wording, since you need to risk money to win money in poker. Here are factors that affect your bankroll's growth

  • Skill level and understanding of the game
  • Bankroll size relative to your buy in
  • Variance of the game
  • Level of competition
  • Rake and rakeback

Maximizing skill level and bankroll growth while also minimizing variance, rake, and skill set of your competitors (basically the inverse of your skill set) are necessary to grow your bankroll.

Without getting into any complex math in this thread, I will say that its a great idea to avoid stakes below $100NL, if possible, simply because the rake is otherwise such a large portion of your potential winnings, reaching upwards of 2.5BB/100 when a great win rate for a skilled player is 4.0bb/100.

Of course, that means that you also need a very solid skill set because just learning the rules and hopping into $100NL games with a $500 bankroll is going to get you owned. Read a lot, maybe find a good poker training site when you can afford it, and post and interact in forums a lot. Gradually, your skills increase. Learn to look at situations in poker objectively. The list could go on forever.

Variance is important because it affects the amount you need to originally invest in the game. Speaking from personal experience, it can be much easier and less time consuming to earn money in another way and then to risk it with poker. What you want to do is find the point at which your hourly rate taking a low- or no-risk job (even if it's an odd job!) matches your poker hourly rate and accounts for the variance and rake you have to face. For example, if you can make $15 a hour working somewhere, then why not do that and save money versus playing $0.01/$0.02 with an hourly rate of $0.50? If you can have 30x the hourly rate, then why not get it elsewhere and then hop on the poker variance train when it makes sense for you: when you're studied enough and when your bankroll is large enough.

Game selection is a big factor. If you can find a game wherein your average win rate is 2bb/100 versus another game wherein you break-even, then seek out ONLY those games you can beat. Once weaker players leave, don't be a dork and break the game immediately; but, play a few orbits and if the weaker player doesn't reload or return, then try to find a solid table to replace the one you can no longer beat for an acceptable amount. This requires discipline, so get used to being honest with yourself and your skill set.

The site on which you play is a large factor, particularly at lower stakes where rake is a large portion of bankroll, and conversely, rake back is a large portion of winnings. Make sure you get a solid rake back deal, but also know that incredible rake back deals are often paired with unproven or unsafe poker clients. Do your research at this point because when you're just starting off, it's likely you're going to be playing on one poker site. Think of it like a HUGE poker decision at the poker table with no variance - it affects your bankroll a lot.

In the same vein, be sure to take advantage of deposit bonuses. I ran up a lot of my starting bankroll hopping from site to site with a smaller win rate. While I got practice, I also unlocked bonuses that effectively added 10-50% to my bankroll. Make sure you can step up from bonus to bonus as well. So for example, one safe site may offer 100% bonus up to $200 bonus (meaning you deposit $200 and they'll give you $200 with some stipulation like you need to play a few thousand hands before cashing out) and another site may offer a bonus like 50% bonus, up to $1000, meaning that they'll give you $500 if you deposit $1000 and for a different stipulation (the number of hands played will likely be different). Make absolutely sure that you can maximize your value and get the most out of every bonus. Make sure you have $200 for the $200 bonus and make sure you have $1000 for the $1000 bonus. Effectively, this is going to add several BB/100 to your win rate, and at this stage, you'd be lighting a significant amount of money on fire not to take this seriously.

I hope all that helps you out! Good luck getting started. Once you reach a point that you've over 50 buy ins for the limit that you can beat for about 2bb/100, it's pretty easy to stay put and then just work on your game until you can move up another few limits, but over more time, since it's much more difficult to get good enough to move up once you get higher than it is to get enough money to move up stakes when you're lower.

There are marginal returns on both sides of the coin: playing to win the most and making the most money you can to play the highest you can play. Just make sure you have your sites aimed at the best outcome for you and grind your face off if you really want it!
 
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thatgreekdude

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thanks everyone, i understand where you're coming from arjonius, i don't think i'm fooling myself to much, when i have about 3 buyins at the micros, and run 3 tables i'm not really in control of getting A K beat by A J, and QQ in against A K a few examples if you see what i mean, and when you have a low roll you can't deal with these beats so easily :(
 
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Don't 3 table with a 3 buy in bank roll
 
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Also, if you think your AK getting beat by QQ is a bad beat you probably have more to learn than you think.
 
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thatgreekdude

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Also, if you think your AK getting beat by QQ is a bad beat you probably have more to learn than you think.

i'm quite aware it's not a bad beat, but if i'm flipping for double or nothing and at my bankroll it's not ideal, guess i should just sit on aces.
 
pokertoi

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Can not seem to build a bankroll to save my life, i'll usually cash in a freeroll for around about $10 then i'll play 0.01 0.02 cash i'll run good and maybe get my bankroll up to around $20 but then i'll lose some and when you're playing with such a small bankroll it is so hard to deal with the down swings because each time you buy in you're literally buying in for 10-20% of your total roll, does anybody have any advice? any at all? thankyou

My advice would be to stay away from cash tables until you build a bigger bank. Try some sng's like the 1 dollar ones or the 2 dollar ones. Once you get around to about 50 bucks, then maybe you can take 10, to a micro game. good luck to you.
 
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thatgreekdude

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My advice would be to stay away from cash tables until you build a bigger bank. Try some sng's like the 1 dollar ones or the 2 dollar ones. Once you get around to about 50 bucks, then maybe you can take 10, to a micro game. good luck to you.

yeah that's what i think i need to do, thankyou :)
 
Keith_MM

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Building a bankroll from scratch is a bit of an awkward wording, since you need to risk money to win money in poker.

.........

Without getting into any complex math in this thread, I will say that its a great idea to avoid stakes below $100NL, if possible, simply because the rake is otherwise such a large portion of your potential winnings, reaching upwards of 2.5BB/100 when a great win rate for a skilled player is 4.0bb/100.

OH come on ....this thread is about building a bankroll from scratch. People doing that are usually beginners. Advising them to avoid stakes below 100nl is just stupid. It may be good for your winrate to have some noobs splashing some cash in your games , but will do the noobs no favours whatsoever and completely ignores the fact they won't have the bankroll to buy in to those games in the first place.
 
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The trick is when you win something in a freeroll say 10 $ don't start playing or grinding on cash tables immediately. Forget about cash games. If you have 10 $ play the sit n go's. Best one for 10 $ bankroll is the 360 player 10 cents turbo. where the first place gets around 7 bucks. You have to keep grinding that and when you reach a much higher bankroll say 50 $ then you can start playing the 50 cent sit n go's 360 players where the first place gets 33 bucks.

Notice both the sit n go's has the potential to increase your bankroll by more than 50 percent for the very first time. I know it's difficult to ship it but if you grind daily you can achieve to make a decent bankroll. then you can try small stakes cash and small buyin mtt's. But for starters just grind these sit n go's and make a decision like you'll never play a single session of cash game unless your bankroll reaches a specific point and stick to that decision no matter what.:albertein
or plays mtts like 0.55 cap 500 at pokerstars
 
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I totally agree with you man. I need to have just a little more patience at sticking with the plan though. i see bigger prizes for a small entry fee and I'm usually going for it. Sometimes it pays off but when it doesn't it sets me back more than a few dime games would have
 
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i'm quite aware it's not a bad beat, but if i'm flipping for double or nothing and at my bankroll it's not ideal, guess i should just sit on aces.

If you have a 3 buy in bankroll why would you get into flips with AK? Especially when you are not even a favorite. Try playing the lowest variance style possible when you only have 3 buy ins.
 
PLAYINBIG

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With a small bank roll I like to play sit n go 6 man double ups.It guarantees at least 50% of the 6 players are going to double up.
 
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If you have a 3 buy in bankroll why would you get into flips with AK? Especially when you are not even a favorite. Try playing the lowest variance style possible when you only have 3 buy ins.

suppose you make a decent point..
 
NightFun

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My advice would be to stay away from cash tables until you build a bigger bank. Try some sng's like the 1 dollar ones or the 2 dollar ones. Once you get around to about 50 bucks, then maybe you can take 10, to a micro game. good luck to you.

I totally agree, this was exactly what I was going to say. I built up from $2.00 to $75 in one month doing this. The double or nothing is the best place to start. If you can't win 5th place out of 10 then you have to take some poker training, and work on your game. Good luck
 
hashtag

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If you have a 3 buy in bankroll why would you get into flips with AK? Especially when you are not even a favorite. Try playing the lowest variance style possible when you only have 3 buy ins.

I'll chime in with IPlay and say careful careful poker might be best for your situation ($10 BR). Play a very tight range of cards only. You'll have to have patience and wait for good spots with this style. Get to about $50 and loosen up and experiment a little. Do not tilt or you will lose it all again...
 
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Its possible to build bankroll but it takes time. Now, to avoid your problem. just play those freerolls until you accumulate around min of $50. Then, you can now play real money games combined with BR management strategy.
Goodluck.
 
transformpoker

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OH come on ....this thread is about building a bankroll from scratch. People doing that are usually beginners. Advising them to avoid stakes below 100nl is just stupid. It may be good for your winrate to have some noobs splashing some cash in your games , but will do the noobs no favours whatsoever and completely ignores the fact they won't have the bankroll to buy in to those games in the first place.

If your goal is to play poker for fun, then having an hourly rate of 10 cents is probably acceptable. If you want to build a bankroll into thousands of dollars, then that's a very slow start.

Of course players can check out stakes below $100NL, but it should be with the understanding that they need to be able withstand the large amount of their win rate that rake cuts out. Oftentimes for $50NL and lower, rake cannibalizes the win rate, and that's why several players have trouble moving up.

So that advice isn't so much that new players should always play $100NL or above, but that playing lower makes it very difficult to build a bankroll. There are other benefits to playing lower stakes, like cutting your teeth in the games or having slightly profitable fun if you have a massive edge on the competition; but, for building a bankroll, players are generally better off starting with a large enough amount to risk to avoid the rake totally eating their winnings.
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
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