BRM - BankRollManagment

I can't seem to find a thread on this some im going to start one. I'm looking for a simplistic guide on good BRM for beginners and or low starting BR's and such. Even a link to a different site or such would be good. Anyone's method is also a good contribution to the thread. How about books on it also? All suggestions are highly appreciated. Looking to start out with around 30$ online at Cake. Need some feedback for BRM!

Mike =)

This might be of some help:
http://www.chrisferguson.com/article-4

It seems Chris Ferguson turned out to be a crook, but his BRM advice is good. SO I am guessing the link up top will be good.

What games will you be playing?

Something like this will work:

Cash games:

20X buy-ins for the level should be fine for micro-limits.
That means for $0.02/0.05 stakes (5NL) you need a $100 bankroll.
If you are more cautious in nature go for 25-30X buy-ins.
It is crucial that you move back down a level if necessary (for example when you drop to around 15X buy-ins for the current level.)

Sit and go (single table):

30-50X buy-ins depending on how cautious you are.
Again, move down to lower buy-ins if necessary.

Multi-table tournaments:

100X buy-ins for the tournament.

Simple but effective!
Good luck!

This is all awesome advice, Yeah Chris is somewhat a crook but it's a good write up, 100x 50x etc seems to leave little room for someone going in with a small BR of like 25-50$. Id like to play SNG's and MTT since you generally can make more money there with less risk. Cash games are cool also but I definitely will be aiming more for SNG's and MTTs. Im not gonna shoot for crazy high winnings, even getting too a 1000k BR would be almost perfect, but obviously the more money I cake stash the better, the real reason behind all this is too become a better player and also use the money I win online for going away to live casinos, im somewhat close to Mohegan Sun in CT and Atlantic city, close enough for a one or two night trips every 2-3 months. So I wanna be prepared and have a decent BR I can withdraw and take with me so I can play live and possibly even come out with bigger earnings.

I think Ferguson's BR management model is a bit conservative. If you can consistently win at a certain level you should definitely be depositing to avoid dropping levels in order to satisfy a certain bankroll percentage. I play full ring NL holdem and never have had a problem with 10 buyins instead of the 20 recommend by Ferguson.

BR management is very necessary to win. I would go with Ferguson's model. I play the only that money which i can lose comfortably (not that i play to lose).

jazzaxe said:

I think Ferguson's BR management model is a bit conservative. If you can consistently win at a certain level you should definitely be depositing to avoid dropping levels in order to satisfy a certain bankroll percentage. I play full ring NL holdem and never have had a problem with 10 buyins instead of the 20 recommend by Ferguson.

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10 buy-ins maybe OK for full-ring cash games IF you are a consistently winning player. I don't think it is enough for 6-max cash games though.

10 buy-ins is definitely not enough for SNGs.

br management

I started by playing a freeroll..got 10 bucks...i have no clue how i managed the bankroll..but i remember playing with 40c at .01/.02nl cash table...today i have over 1300 - 1500 bucks...it has been swinging in middle for few days now. I know its not much for some of you guys...but its awesome for a freeroller. The only thing i know about BR management ..is that i always played with money that i was okay with if i lost or got a bad beat.
Besides, I'd totally go with Ferguson's model.

I like that story, lol free roll to 1300. How long did that take you? I think if im doing SNG's id feel ok with around 15x which for me if I decide to deposit in with cake poker and I do 30$, thats 15, 2$ SNG's which seems pretty decent since the payout isnt bad.

micromachine said:

10 buy-ins maybe OK for full-ring cash games IF you are a consistently winning player. I don't think it is enough for 6-max cash games though.

10 buy-ins is definitely not enough for SNGs.

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I agree with this. Even in my baby steps in FR, my very short BR was good enough. Later on in 6max it wasn't and my confidence improved greatly when I made a deposit to make a 20BI.

Nothing like not playing with scared money.

Agreed, I love playing with money that isn't scared money. Maybe I should try to Freeroll first on Cake.......if there is any -_-

CoolMike90 said:

I like that story, lol free roll to 1300. How long did that take you? I think if im doing SNG's id feel ok with around 15x which for me if I decide to deposit in with cake poker and I do 30$, thats 15, 2$ SNG's which seems pretty decent since the payout isnt bad.

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It would be better if you could deposit $40-50 and have enough for 20-25 buy-ins because variance can be awful....I have never seen 15 buy-ins recommended as decent BRM strategy for SNGs. But if that's all you are willing to deposit then by all means go for it! You might be fine. As you move up buy-ins though I really would recommend using a 30-50 buy-in strategy.
GL

A bankroll management example

You have decided to deposit $250 into your poker bankroll. You have read a book and have a basic understanding of the game. The goal is to first reach $100NL where this is the first stake where you think you could earn enough money to be happy about it.

So you have decided that you want to use a 10BI bankroll at the start and you will move down when you have less than 7BI at the current stake. When you reach $100NL you will switch to a 30BI bankroll when this is the first stake you feel it’s worth grinding at.

So $250 is 10BI at $25NL (big blind $0.25)
· Will move up to $50NL when you reach $500
· Will move down when you have $175 left
o Which is $175/$20NL = 8,75BI at $20NL
· When you reach $1000 you will be allowed to play $100NL
o Then you will switch to 30BI bankroll
o So you would need $200 x 30 = $6000 before you move to $200NL
o When you start using a bigger bankroll you should also add a plan for when you are allowed to take stabs at the stake above
§ When you get 20BI you are allowed to add one table of the higher stake

CoolMike90 said:

Id like to play SNG's and MTT since you generally can make more money there with less risk. .

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I dont agree with this.The variance swings are prone to be much more volitile in SnG and MTT. You do risk less in that you can play a 10/25 table for a maximum buy in and end up tilting and buying 5x or whatever. But if you know cash games and play at a level that your skill level can take, I think (and I have for a long time been only a tourney player)your variance is much less. Less variance = less risk.... But if you dont understand 6max or FR dynamics, then, yea tourney = less risk.Many a good tourney player has run into the danger of a long and expensive drought....

Most SnG regs consider 50 buyins to be the minimum amount you need for whatever level you're playing. Yes, the swings really are that bad. Personally I prefer to have 100 or so, but maybe I'm a BRM nit.

Playing with just 10 or 20 is asking to go busto IMO.

As far as MTTs go, the variance in the is pretty much as bad as it gets. Again, I'd want 50 buyins minimum if you're playing a given level of MTTs regularly and would prefer more like 100.

Since Ive seen so many different posts and you guys contributing so much I have to ask,

1. is 30$ a good starting point? Like I said im not much for cash games I like SNG's and MTT's I dont mind up too 50$ if I have too, to get those kind of BI's like 50x and such

2. I know theres a thread for this and we can debate on it all day but im a player from NY, in the US. Is Cake the best option?

Do not start playing HU unless you have 50 BI my 2 cents

OzExorcist said:

Most SnG regs consider 50 buyins to be the minimum amount you need for whatever level you're playing. Yes, the swings really are that bad. Personally I prefer to have 100 or so, but maybe I'm a BRM nit.

Playing with just 10 or 20 is asking to go busto IMO.

As far as MTTs go, the variance in the is pretty much as bad as it gets. Again, I'd want 50 buyins minimum if you're playing a given level of MTTs regularly and would prefer more like 100.

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^^ I'm a BR nit aswell and it has turned out to be better than not being nitty.

OzExorcist said:

Most SnG regs consider 50 buyins to be the minimum amount you need for whatever level you're playing. Yes, the swings really are that bad. Personally I prefer to have 100 or so, but maybe I'm a BRM nit.

Playing with just 10 or 20 is asking to go busto IMO.

As far as MTTs go, the variance in the is pretty much as bad as it gets. Again, I'd want 50 buyins minimum if you're playing a given level of MTTs regularly and would prefer more like 100.

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No. You are right.Variance is a bitch specially when you are learning the game. At NL a BRM of 25 buy-ins means you need at least 50 dollars for start to play 1/2c . Personaly i think it is not enough and you need at least 50 buy-ins because if you run bad an loose 10 buy-ins you start to play with fear or tilt with affects your play.
For Fixed Limit i think you need at least 450 BBs to feel confortable.
For SNGs if you multitable you need at least 50 buy-ins.
For MTTS depends on what MTTs do you play. If you play 45 ppl SNGs i think 50 is enough. If you play 180 ppl SNGs i think you need at least 200 buy-ins. You can go 20-30 games or more without cashing once. I myself do not play 180 ppl SNgs because i do not have time because they take like 4 hours to complete and you have to play at least 4 of them or else you will be bored. Between my real job and poker i dedicate most of my time to the one that gives me 98% of my money for now

Im thinking of depositing 50$ now instead of 30, Just need to figure out where I'm going to play.

CoolMike90 said:

Im thinking of depositing 50$ now instead of 30, Just need to figure out where I'm going to play.

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Play on the site with the lowest rake for the SNG level/buy-in you want to play at. On some sites the rake for $1 SNGs is as high as 20% which is virtually unbeatable. Try not to pay more than 10-12% rake, and get rakeback if you can.

CoolMike90 said:

I can't seem to find a thread on this some im going to start one. I'm looking for a simplistic guide on good BRM for beginners and or low starting BR's and such. Even a link to a different site or such would be good. Anyone's method is also a good contribution to the thread. How about books on it also? All suggestions are highly appreciated. Looking to start out with around 30$ online at Cake. Need some feedback for BRM!

Mike =)

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CoolMike90 said:

Im thinking of depositing 50$ now instead of 30, Just need to figure out where I'm going to play.

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Firstly, I recommend "not" playing at cake, never depositing that's for sure.

If you are (sounds like you might be) going to get the "no deposit" starting BR for free though the numerous poker websites which offer it then I guess it's ok to learn the game but don't ever expect to be able to just withdraw the money easily via cake poker, it's hard enough trying to get your own deposited funds let alone anything else.

I certainly don't recommend putting your own hard earned money there though, I've had nothing but trouble there. Withdrawing takes forever, took me 3months or so to withdraw such a small amount (they are/still are struggling with funds themselves) ($130.00) and on top of that, now the MINIMUM withdrawal for cake is $500.00.

I would go deposit at a site like pokerstars and stick $100.00 on as they have limits for any sort of bankrolls.


SnGS: 50-100 buy-ins
Cash(micros): 30-50 buy-ins
MTT's: 100+

Again though, this all depends on your play style, if you're a nit then you can get away with less. If however, you are a loose 6max player for example, I'd cushion myself with 50+.

I am conservative but what has worked for me is whatever site Im at I BI up to 5 percent of BR on that site for cash table or STT SnGs or 2 percent of total BR at that site. for MTT. , Works fine for me and gets me through variance as well.

I would have no problem playing @ Pokerstars in a heart beat, but I live in the US which kinda screws me over. I'll heed your advice for Cake and not deposit there. but than that still leaves me at step 1 on figuring out where too play. = ( I hate the US