BR query: How do you know "what you can afford to lose"?

Lheticus

Lheticus

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I've had this question in mind to start a discussion with for I think around a week now, but I had to struggle to find the right words to say what I actually mean. What I'm wondering, and indeed really don't have any comprehension at all of, is the subject here: How can I tell what "what I can afford to lose" is? Particularly if I'm on a bad losing streak. How many buy ins out of a 100 buy in bankroll would be okay to lose before cutting myself off, provided it really is just a lot of bad luck coming my way? If the losing streak ends in the middle of the day, how do I handle this? Do I not take any money out unless my BR gets above 100 buy ins again? What if I need the money I'm making in poker for something, does that affect the answer to the previous question?

As you can see, I'm pretty darn confused about this!
 
C

CallmeFloppy

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I would break it down for in these few ways. 1- If you need that bankroll money for something later, you don't have a bankroll. 2 - If you are losing due to bad luck, and that is honestly what it is, then I would keep playing if you have a positive expectation at the table. If you feel this bad luck is affecting your play, walk away. Maybe you are being outplayed and need to find a new table. Personally, I play for a percentage of my bankroll. If I lose, I recalculate what I can play with and buyin with that new amount if I feel the game is good.
 
Lheticus

Lheticus

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(this post is for the benefit of both the person who replied and anyone commenting here in the future)

A relatively minor clarification, I said what if I need "the money I'm making," as in the money I'm using the now diminished bankroll to produce that happens to not be being produced.

Also, I'm not actually in any sort of situation like this, this is all hypothetical, put forth to help me better understand the nuances of bankroll management for any non-hypothetical attempts in the future. So, under this hypothetical assumption, I'm not actually being outplayed.

Finally, you mentioned recalculating to a lower buy in. When something like this happens to someone, how much of the profit from this diminished rate should go toward rebuilding, and how much should go toward the money you want to actually withdraw and spend? 50/50?
 
PapaC

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Your subject to this tread is the question, right? Like you are wanting to know how much of your house hold money you can use for poker. Or are you asking how much can you lose from your BR before you do something about it? I'm just trying to understand.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Yeah, the additional post makes it even more confusing as to what you are actually trying to ask.

CallMeFloppy pretty much nailed what I took as being the question.

If you are on a losing streak why would you think about withdrawing anything, unless you fear the risk of tilting off the entire bankroll and this is a temporary fix for that until you have managed to get through the issues and then plan to redeposit or rebuild.

If you are simply running bad then you need your bankroll to give you the best chance you have at rebuilding the loses and beyond into more profits. Withdrawing while on a downswing, unless something externally comes up to make you need the money like unexpected bills etc that you would otherwise have to accrue debt to pay, is simply going to increase your ROR or cause you to have to drop stakes and rebuild which is essentially what you would have to do if you lose a certain % of the overall br anyhow so why impact that even greater by then withdrawing part of the BR if you don't need it?
 
Lheticus

Lheticus

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Okay, let me put it another way. You get on a losing streak. You lose, let's say just for the sake of example around 12-14 buy ins in a row out of 100 before the losing streak stops. Now after the losing streak stops, you get back to making profit at roughly the same rate as before, say 4 BB per hour would be pretty usual. What sort of percentage of this renewed profit would go toward rebuilding the buy ins you lose, and what sort of percentage would you funnel out toward real life expenses as in this scenario you'd been doing before?
 
Henry Minute

Henry Minute

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Okay, let me put it another way. You get on a losing streak. You lose, let's say just for the sake of example around 12-14 buy ins in a row out of 100 before the losing streak stops. Now after the losing streak stops, you get back to making profit at roughly the same rate as before, say 4 BB per hour would be pretty usual. What sort of percentage of this renewed profit would go toward rebuilding the buy ins you lose, and what sort of percentage would you funnel out toward real life expenses as in this scenario you'd been doing before?
I don't think it makes any difference whether your winnings have a losing streak in the middle or not. If you are generally a winning player then it would make sense to keep your BR until you have 100 buy-ins for the next level. Once you reach a level where you don't want to move up, then you can think about withdrawing.

Unless, of course, you have an 'emergency' that means you need cash, in that case withdraw what you need for that situation.
 
Lheticus

Lheticus

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I don't think it makes any difference whether your winnings have a losing streak in the middle or not. If you are generally a winning player then it would make sense to keep your BR until you have 100 buy-ins for the next level. Once you reach a level where you don't want to move up, then you can think about withdrawing.

Unless, of course, you have an 'emergency' that means you need cash, in that case withdraw what you need for that situation.

This scenario assumes that I've reached a level in which I'm content not to move up and just generate money. In that sort of case, I'm guessing you'd say put it all toward recuperation unless I actually need it for something. I would attempt to explore that case, but it's rather flagrantly unlikely to happen, even more so than the rest of this scenario. Thanks.
 
detroitjunkie

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This is the way I do it, maybe it will help you.

My active playing bankroll is $2000 because I like to play $100 PLO as my highest staked game. (Which agreed my BR for this particular game may be a little low but its rare I play that level and only if I know who I am playing against and think I have an edge)

I will NEVER withdraw any money until my BR reaches $2500. Then I take out $500 as my spending money. If I have a reason to take out more, say for a cruise, I will foresee this expense and wait until my BR reaches the cost of the cruise. If I can not make it reach that size before I need to purchase, I only take out that which is above the $2000 mark and pay for the rest out of my pocket (or in reality the wife's purse lol)

If my roll falls below $2k, I will never take it out until it gets back to it, unless extreme emergency or a deal I just cant pass up due to a sale or promotion.

Therefore, all profits should go towards rebuilding back to your mark. Do not get into the habit of taking money out before you hit your mark no matter the win streak. You will eventually end up hitting zero before you know it - TRUST ME.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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I guess if you previously had a plan then go back to the same plan.

Given you are probably wondering what kind of plan that is and that your at the level you want to grind and generate profit then I guess you would do a time based or maybe even # of hands based withdrawal approach.

Say the beginning of each month or maybe each 100k hands, if you are in profit on either you chose then you could essentially withdraw all profits above the 100 buyins (or whatever BRM, thats pretty nitty for cash as a rec player but about right if grinding as a pro).

You could set a limit whereby anything less than 10 buyins, so 10% increased br essentially then you wouldn't bother withdrawing and then wait until you have completed the set aside amount of time or hands again before looking to determine if you can make a withdrawal.

Essentially as long as you have the BRM requirements you are following without plans on moving up then there is no reason to keep profits in any amount above that brm.

Well now that I read detroitjunkies post in full basically what he said more or less lol
 
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