Bluffing the river

C

cracksniper

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Total posts
170
Chips
0
like the title says when is it good when is it bad; eg is it best to bet the flop then turn and river? I wouldn't do it to a large stack who can call and knock you out but in general would it be good to put a shorty all in. I know it is a bit general this but do you have to represent strength all the way or if the flop is checked then you bet the turn and it is called but he checks the river on a really scary board ie flushes straights and full houses should you go ai.
The other thing is if you don't you loose the pot because you have nothing so it is the only way to win?
 
BluffMeAllIn

BluffMeAllIn

4evrInmyheart RIP xoxo :(
Silver Level
Joined
May 2, 2009
Total posts
11,324
Chips
0
IMO if the story fits then the villian will quit, but don't throw good money/chips after bad (whats in the middle is no longer yours until it is). Opponent has to believe the story you are telling that makes them believe they are beat, and then be good enough to lay it down.
 
C

cracksniper

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Total posts
170
Chips
0
bluffing the river

thanks bluffme' well for example, I have KJc on the button there is a raiser before me who has been active, he min raises 5000, blinds are 1-2000 with a 300 ante' the bb calls;

the flop is pretty random 7 high with two hearts on board; it gets checked around. The turn comes an 8d actually making a straight poss'. It gets checked to me and I bet 10000 I think nobody really fancies this so I'll take a stab well the bb calls and the other kid folds.

The river comes another 8h completing the flush and potentially the full house. He checks but has only got 25000 behind compared to my 70000. So me thinks the only way I'm going to win this is to put him all in so I do, he tanks for ages calls and shows K7o. One of my mates said he couldn't believe he called but he said something like if I'd have bet the flush draw on the flop he wouldn't have called the river. Anyhow what do you think?
 
d44ve

d44ve

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Total posts
99
Chips
0
The only time I bluff the river is if I am planning bluffing the whole way. I am betting pre flop, turn and RIVER. At least this way they think you have a strong hand
 
C

cracksniper

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Total posts
170
Chips
0
thanks D44ve I like this reply, do the lot or not at all! Like you said it looks strong. In the hand I mentioned though a bluff was the only way through as the bb didn't appear strong at all. I wouldn't have called for my tourney life like he did, too many hands that he's behind too
 
Theromeo2k

Theromeo2k

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Total posts
876
Awards
1
Chips
2
If an opponent's betting line makes no sense and seems very weird, then a bluff on the river will work a high percentage of the time. You could even bluff raise the river instead of bluff catching with a marginal hand *if* you think your opponent is weak by the river. Bluff raising is even more effective if the above mentioned is true *and* a scare card fills the board on the river (str8s, and flushes).

Don't overdo it though, pick your spots!
 
ScottieDuncan

ScottieDuncan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Total posts
1,286
Awards
1
Chips
1
If u gonna bluff the river, then plan on betting the flop and turn.
 
E

erlanditas

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Total posts
253
Chips
0
bluff river worst idea, then u should put some money on turn and river if you wanna bluff. If you only bluff river they can call with Ace high or something like this
 
C

cracksniper

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Total posts
170
Chips
0
I did put money on the turn, he called then checked the river and i put him ai
 
C

Cleobulle

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Total posts
17
Chips
0
On that particular hand, I think the bb was pot-committed, and that you shouldn't have tried the bluff... but I'm not very good ;-)
 
D

dasher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Total posts
99
Chips
0
You can't just bluff in isolation. The other players have to buy it.

If you called a pre-flop raise, then called, called... a big bet on the river looks and feels like a bluff. It's not going to pass unless the river significantly altered the board. A flush filled (not a backdoor, nobody calls the flop on a backdoor), an obvious straight (don't bluff on an obscure threat), the board pairing in the middle. They might believe you were calling with a middle pair, but not bottom pair. So if you haven't been betting, you can only try a bluff when a scare card hits.
 
steveiam

steveiam

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Total posts
3,625
Chips
0
Best time to bluff is Pre flop. Example would be to raise UTG with rags..If you get any callers once the flop hits you bet out again, chances are everybody missed and will fold. If you have been playing tight everyone will put you on a hand.
 
J

jj20002

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
777
Chips
0
not all the shorties are good for that and not all the largies are uncrackeable, so the right bluff has to be in the right spot, depending in too many factors including the number of villains (more than two is not desirable) and the kind of players one is facing, stacks, cards in the board, the way one play through the board displaying, the way other players play
 
trolaAa

trolaAa

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Total posts
274
Chips
0
thanks bluffme' well for example, I have KJc on the button there is a raiser before me who has been active, he min raises 5000, blinds are 1-2000 with a 300 ante' the bb calls;

the flop is pretty random 7 high with two hearts on board; it gets checked around. The turn comes an 8d actually making a straight poss'. It gets checked to me and I bet 10000 I think nobody really fancies this so I'll take a stab well the bb calls and the other kid folds.

The river comes another 8h completing the flush and potentially the full house. He checks but has only got 25000 behind compared to my 70000. So me thinks the only way I'm going to win this is to put him all in so I do, he tanks for ages calls and shows K7o. One of my mates said he couldn't believe he called but he said something like if I'd have bet the flush draw on the flop he wouldn't have called the river. Anyhow what do you think?

First I would not play those cards but after seeing the pot extremely cheap with them and not hit anything why the hell u are risking all your chips in one hand with no chanse of win ? :cheers:
 
C

cracksniper

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Total posts
170
Chips
0
I ddnt risk all my chips, he only had 25000 behind whilst I had 70000, the pot at this stage is 35000 Im not giving this up to a player who has not really shown any aggression in the hand. If id have just checked back the river I knew I was beat, this was the only way to win this pot.
 
H

hffjd2000

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Total posts
2,329
Chips
0
If im the villain, Im thinking Im ahead on the flop, turn and river. I dont believe you have flush or fullhouse. Your check on the flop and overbet on the river is really suspicious. One more thing, the pot is somewhat like 40000 more or less and my chips left is 25000. I will have to call you.
 
S

SpookMBluffwell

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 21, 2013
Total posts
70
Chips
0
Whos being baited...

It seems if those questions could be answered and pertained to every situation, well a player would be unstoppable. It can be much easier some might say playing poker offline where you can observe youyr opponents actions look for their tells etc....but if you do find a concretre answerr to your inquiry on betting strategy, PLEASe post it because Id love to know as well!!
 
T

TheNoobie

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Total posts
159
Chips
0
You can bluff at any stage of the cards dealing - flop, turn, river. It is the question When can I do it, rather than can I. Firstly you need to get to know the opponent youre bluffing, it depends on your table image aswell. As the definition of bluffing says - representing a stronger hand than you actually have, most of the time you cant just check on flop and turn and then bluff him on the river. You need to represent a strong hand from the very beginning and he needs to be smart enough to notice that you could have something, instead some fish that will call you with lowest pair worst kicker. If you are playing against experienced players you can bluff once in a while, but make sure you do it with c-bets and such. Against fishes its just not worth it. They couldnt care less as long as they got a pair, even if its 4 clubs on the board he will still call you with a pair. You just need to represent a strong table image ( That you dont call random raises and you pay only when you have something ) and the people you play with need to realise that just aswell. If you represent a solid rock table image it would be way easier to bluff, than if people think you are some loose player.
 
Carl Trooper

Carl Trooper

Degenerate Idiot
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Total posts
3,381
Awards
6
Chips
0
Position def. helps with this . If he is first and checks on a pretty blank board, you throw out a C bet and he flats, most likely giving him credit for something marginal.

Now he checks on the turn again, and you fire a pot sized bet and he calls... you really need to size up your opponent on the river. If he checks again, sometimes going for the all in bluff will take it away.

Its important to figure out the range of your opponent, and think "Would my opponent fold A7 here on a 2d3h7h8h2c board?" if so make the right sized bet and take it down.
 
Top