Bluff This

Elliegurl

Elliegurl

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I cannot bluff to save my life. I have tried and failed miserably, so I don't do it very often...and usually with mixed results.

But I see people do it all the time....making huge bets with absolutely nothing for cards. I go nuts when I see someone steal a pot with a total bluff and then show their cards to rub it in.

So, basically, I hate giving up on a good hand when there is nothing on the board for me. Can someone please tell me the best time to bluff and how to go about not losing my shirt in the process??
:confused:
 
Sean Pilgrim

Sean Pilgrim

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"The Book of Bluffs" - Matt Lessinger

Quick read - lots of informative chapters and many many different scenarios and strategies applies to both online and live.

#1 Tip - A bluff is supposed to make your opponent believe you have a strong hand, at any point in a bluff do you show weakness you confuse your opponent. Then at that point because you have confused him/her with a large raise on the flop and a check on the turn you incite him/her calling.
 
zachvac

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In general it seems you're being way too results-oriented. Someone showing a bluff should not tilt you at all. You should probably note somewhere the circumstances of the bluff and that they are capable of the move, but it should not upset you, it's part of the game. Also when your bluff gets called you shouldn't be upset if it was a profitable bluff in the long run. Now determining if it is is way more advanced than can be explained in a simple post and comes with a lot of experience.
 
slycbnew

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In general it seems you're being way too results-oriented. Someone showing a bluff should not tilt you at all. You should probably note somewhere the circumstances of the bluff and that they are capable of the move, but it should not upset you, it's part of the game. Also when your bluff gets called you shouldn't be upset if it was a profitable bluff in the long run. Now determining if it is is way more advanced than can be explained in a simple post and comes with a lot of experience.

+1

Novice players frequently misunderstand what a bluff really is - it's creating a coherent story regarding your hand, using your betting pattern/sizing and what's occurred to that point in the hand at the table, and what you think your opponent is likely holding, that your hand is strong enough to take down the pot when your hand doesn't have a good chance of winning the pot. The story needs to hang together, which requires some planning at the beginning of the hand (many novices think the bluff starts on the river, but they're wrong).

Since it's a story, you have to make sure the story makes sense. If it doesn't, your bluff won't work. Also, you need to make sure whoever you're bluffing is capable of paying attention to the story and understanding it - if they don't get the story, or don't even realize you're telling a story, there's no point in bluffing. There are bluffs that will work on advanced players that cannot work on novice players, simply because the novice won't understand the story. There are other bluffs that will work on a novice that an advanced player would never fall for.

Note that the story you're telling applies to all hands in poker, not just to bluffing. Getting someone to pay off your absolute nuts hand requires you telling a different story - i.e., you're "bluffing" having something that's not the nuts.

Many novices don't realize the importance of the story, and only rely on the cards. When you hear people say "play poker, not cards", or "play the player, not your hand", this is part of what they mean.

When zach says it's part of the game, in a sense it IS the game.
 
Ronaldadio

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I think it is fair to say that some people think they have to bluff all of the time. Almost like they have read a book.

Then what happens is they start to get called and eventually stacked.

There is a time to bluff, a position to bluff, a time to fire that 2nd & 3rd bullet and also a time to check down when you bluff has been exposed or u know u will get called when u have zero.
 
O

onebadbird

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it tilts me too its like they are stealing my chips!!!!!! but i too suck at bluffing too so i guess i am kinda jelious of their success.
 
J

joelb88

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If your talking about live poker then half of it is your body posture/ facial expressions when you look at your cards or when cards get dealt. If you can keep your face from reacting then it will be harder to read you...

If your talking about online poker then i think its harder to bluff, but if you can make the other person believe youve got a big hand then there more likely to fold, so it is all on how much you bet.
 
Stu_Ungar

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I cannot bluff to save my life. I have tried and failed miserably, so I don't do it very often...and usually with mixed results.

But I see people do it all the time....making huge bets with absolutely nothing for cards. I go nuts when I see someone steal a pot with a total bluff and then show their cards to rub it in.

So, basically, I hate giving up on a good hand when there is nothing on the board for me. Can someone please tell me the best time to bluff and how to go about not losing my shirt in the process??:confused:

Bluffs firstly have to make sense.

Missing a draw and then sticking in a big bet is not a bluff! A bluff has to make sense in the context of the hand it was played.

Secondly, bluffs have to be pitched at opponents who are likely to fold. A TAG is your best bet, a NIT even better. You cannot bluff calling stations so easily, and these are the very players whom you will find yourself with on the river holding a busted draw... because they call too much!

Also the best bluffing opportunities are when a small bet will cause a fold, so a larger bet on the turn can cause a fold more easily than a bet on the river (which requires also putting money in on the turn .. so a river bluff is costing the turn bet too). The turn bluff implies a hand which you would bet the river too and therefore has more chance of success because it can be done for less money (so it doesn't have to win as often!)

But don't go OTT with bluffing... On the one hand you will win some of your missed hands.. on the other, if people think you bluff a lot , they will be more inclined to call you down light. This is great with your value hands.. but of you bluff too much, that profit will be wiped out by them calling down your bluffing hands.. its a balancing act.
 
B

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From "Winning Poker Tournaments One Hand at a Time:"

A riverbet from an out of position player who's check-called both the flop and turn is often a bluff.

(Post-flop) Allins reek of weakness and will often be called.

Allin check-raises are often draws.

When a player checks the flop, makes a small turn bet but then makes a much larger bet in relation to the size of the pot on the river, he's usually betting a busted draw.

I've distilled these few from my readings. It's an excellent book with some terrific observations from Pearljammer, Apestyles, and Rizen.
 
StormRaven

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Example

There have been some great responses here and a lot of truth. I thought maybe spelling out an example might be helpful.

Possible times to attempt a bluff:

Example 1: You are in the co (cut off = 1 from btn (button)) and have noticed the btn rarely raises, either folds or limps. You've also noticed the persons in the blinds rarely call preflop raises of 3x bb or if either of them do they will often fold to a c-bet (continuation bet) on the flop. This would be a good time to do a preflop raise of 3x the bb in an attempt to steal the blinds & antes (if applicable).

Example 1a: If you are first to act, everyone has folded to you & you raise 3x bb and get a call from one of the blinds and that person checks the flop to you, this would be a good time to bet 3/4 - whole pot in an attempt to continue with your story (you are representing a big hand like JJ-AA) in an attempt to take the pot (steal it) right now.

Example 2: You are in lp (late position) and have some medium hand like 77 or 89 suited and want to see a flop. The table seems fairly tight and/or weak and there already have been 2 or more limpers into the pot. The flop comes dry (no apparent draws or scare cards like A K Q - no flush draws, etc; ) and everyone checks the flop around to you. Even if you didn't hit your hand, now would be a good time to put a fairly large bet out there, again like 3/4 of the pot to the whole pot. Chances are good you will take the pot down right then and there.

Example 3: You are in the sb (small blind) and wake up with some suited connectors, like J 10 clubs. 3 people have limped into the pot, you can as well. The flop comes out 8c 9d 2c. Now you have an open ended straight draw plus a flush draw. Now would be a good time to semi-bluff. That means to bet your draws.

**Of course everything is situational. Preferably you want as few opponents as possible left to act after you do. If you attempt a bluff in position, you would like as few opponents as possible in the pot with you. Like example 2 has 2 limpers already and the blinds yet to act, this is a bit more dangerous, but do-able. If the flop is wet you must continue with extreme caution and prepare to fold if necessary. If someone in the blinds calls you - what type of player are they? What is your table image? What is your stack size relative to those you are trying to bluff?
 
L

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Telling a story is all fine and dandy. That's part of the problem. At the low/micro level players 'don't get it' All that matters is the cards in front of them and how much they have in the pot.

For the low/micro level is comes down to observation. There are some players that will lay it down--make note of them. Then there is the overwhelming majority who will go to the river no matter what. Make a large PF raise with your A-A; rag-rag-rag on the flop; 3/4 pot continuation bet and *surprise* you are going to get called by some idiot who hit nothing by air with their 9-2 hoping and wishing that they might get lucky on the turn and river. And guess somewhat? Sometimes they actually DO!!!!!

I've learned through experience at the micro level two requirements to bluff:
1) By observation, you can figure out which player can laydown a hand.
2) Bluff with a hand with some potential (aka semi-bluff)
3) If you try to bluff a tight player and get re-raised, they ain't bluffing.

Stone cold bluffs, for me have been really brutal. If you figure it out, let us in on it.

Good luck on figuring this out. Playing tight will only get you so far. Stealing a reasonable pot through a well timed bluff (which is something I really, really need to work on) is what builds your stack.
 
newbie37

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I think it's a matter of practice like anything, or some people think it's a natural skill.
 
Stu_Ungar

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Telling a story is all fine and dandy. That's part of the problem. At the low/micro level players 'don't get it' All that matters is the cards in front of them and how much they have in the pot.

For the low/micro level is comes down to observation. There are some players that will lay it down--make note of them. Then there is the overwhelming majority who will go to the river no matter what. Make a large PF raise with your A-A; rag-rag-rag on the flop; 3/4 pot continuation bet and *surprise* you are going to get called by some idiot who hit nothing by air with their 9-2 hoping and wishing that they might get lucky on the turn and river. And guess somewhat? Sometimes they actually DO!!!!!

I've learned through experience at the micro level two requirements to bluff:
1) By observation, you can figure out which player can laydown a hand.
2) Bluff with a hand with some potential (aka semi-bluff)
3) If you try to bluff a tight player and get re-raised, they ain't bluffing.

Stone cold bluffs, for me have been really brutal. If you figure it out, let us in on it.

Good luck on figuring this out. Playing tight will only get you so far. Stealing a reasonable pot through a well timed bluff (which is something I really, really need to work on) is what builds your stack.

+1

Thats spot on
 
Roller

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Create The Illusion.

Tell The Story.
PreFlop > Flop > Turn > River




Remember you can't Bluff a Donk or a Fool.

Good Luck
 
M

MainEventOrBust

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What game/limit are you playing? There are plenty of games you should rarely bluff in.
 
nutshooter

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The lower the stakes, the more likely you are to be called on a bluff because your oppenents will not know what a bluff is. the higher the stakes, the more likely your opponents are to tell when your bluffing. Find a mix that your comfortable and bluff once in a while not every other hand.
 
damon789

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Bluff baby bluff

Bluff the few not the many. and repeating what many have said already a bluff has to make sense not be a bolt out of the blue. I have no greater satisfaction than snapping of a river bluff with middle pair when someone(unwisely) bets the pot on the riv after check aclling the flop and turn after all If they had a set why didnt they raise?
There are some great posts on bluffs I replied to another one very recently so maybe a search on your part is in order Gl at the tables
 
Elliegurl

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Wow, some really, really good advice coming in on this thread. I never knew bluffing was so complicated!!

Thanks to all who have responded!


I have read everyone's advise (and the article by Dorkus) and I really appreciate the input.
 
lektrikguy

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Remember not to bluff in micros =)

I bluff in micros all the time. I put out an aggressive image by raising preflop a lot-usually if I get a string of good hands and get called and win the pot. After that it's easier to bluff. Once you get caught a couple of times you have to cut it off. Sounds like you don't know when to give up the hand and need to learn position poker. Get Doyle Brunson's Super System-it helped me a ton to tighten up my game.
 
I

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It also depends on what stakes! No matter what you hear, in general it's not a good idea to bluff in micros... those guys will call with bottom pair bottom kicker half the time.

One thing I always do in micro stakes is see how much I can raise preflop before they stop calling. If you're decent post-flop and you can get them to call 20x BB's preflop every time you're gonna be winning some nice and easy pots :)
 
AtiFCOD

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Use half-bluffs, rgo bluff when you have developing straights/flush/drill...even if they call, you have chance to win a lot of chips. ;) But if you see that the opponent will call anything, give up bluffing.
 
P

Plus Reste

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Wow
The Negranu thing on bluffing is very precise, maybe a little to much.

Try playing in position more often you should get better results, and when you do get caught bluffing "and you will" go back to playing tight for a wile and pick your spots and opponents !!very wisely!!

Switch your play up and get them off your game " keep em guessing "

Good Luck
Ps. Study what Dorkus published.
 
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