Betting my draws

In ring games, when I am on a draw, is it profitable to bet the percent chance I have to hit in order to increase the pot for when I win, or is this faulty logic?

For example:

Dealt to Jeder lacht [Kd Td]
imkhan: folds
RichieC73: calls $0.02
kdubsmith: calls $0.02
fabio25777: folds
matts31: calls $0.02
Jeder lacht: raises $0.04 to $0.06
lybraxxx78: calls $0.06
lihin: calls $0.05
Durango11111: calls $0.04
RichieC73: calls $0.04
kdubsmith: calls $0.04
matts31: calls $0.04
*** FLOP *** [6d 3d 2c]
lihin: checks
Durango11111: checks
RichieC73: checks
kdubsmith: checks
matts31: checks
Jeder lacht: bets $0.12
lybraxxx78: folds
lihin: folds
Durango11111: folds
RichieC73: calls $0.12
kdubsmith: folds
matts31: calls $0.12
*** TURN *** [6d 3d 2c] [8s]
RichieC73: checks
matts31: bets $0.02
Jeder lacht: raises $0.18 to $0.20
RichieC73: calls $0.20
matts31: calls $0.18
*** RIVER *** [6d 3d 2c 8s] [2d]
RichieC73: checks
matts31: checks
Jeder lacht: bets $0.40
RichieC73: folds
matts31: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.40) returned to Jeder lacht
Jeder lacht collected $1.33 from pot

Wow, I just realized here I was betting 30% instead of 20.

What if I am in a tournament, what's a good rule of thumb for draws then?

The main reason to bet draws is not to price yourself in. Usually draws have less than 1:1 (or even 2:1) odds. So generally you're going to be betting very small on the flop, which telegraphs weakness. Instead, check and if your opponent checks behind, you get the next card free instead of for X amount of money. Or, bet a real amount, and hopefully the times they fold and the times they call but you hit will make the play profitable.

As a general rule of thumb, I *never* bet less than half the pot on the flop or turn betting rounds.

So the bottom line is: If you have equity in the pot, worse hands will call your bet, better hands will fold to your bet, or betting will buy you a free card, then you should be betting.

Fold that hand preflop please

Inscore77 said:

Fold that hand preflop please

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While I don't totally disagree here, I don't agree folding here always is a thing to do. But I would add that if you are going to play these cards in this situation, a 3x raise was totally wrong. 5x or limp, and as this was a penny game, 6 or 7x might equate to a standard game 3x which with all those limpers would be worthless most of the time.

dj11 said:

While I don't totally disagree here, I don't agree folding here always is a thing to do. But I would add that if you are going to play these cards in this situation, a 3x raise was totally wrong. 5x or limp, and as this was a penny game, 6 or 7x might equate to a standard game 3x which with all those limpers would be worthless most of the time.

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Not fold at all times, but he is in bad posistion to play this hand

Sorry - title of the thread threw me....thought it was a new definition of "all-in".

dj11 said:

I would add that if you are going to play these cards in this situation, a 3x raise was totally wrong. 5x or limp, and as this was a penny game, 6 or 7x might equate to a standard game 3x which with all those limpers would be worthless most of the time.

Click to expand...

3x had been working for me. Any more and most people would fold and big raises seemed to tempt people to re-raise astronomically, and I know I would fold to a re-raise. You still don't agree?

schnozzinkobenstein said:

3x had been working for me. Any more and most people would fold and big raises seemed to tempt people to re-raise astronomically, and I know I would fold to a re-raise. You still don't agree?

Click to expand...

I might agree on playing it on the button or from the CO, but not from MP

Limp>Fold>Raise IMO

But to answer your question, in a tourney never bet on draws, unless you have a draw+TP or a draw with overs. You do not have a big enough stack to bet and just hope you complete

FOLD KTs pf??? He was IN position, 2nd to last to act seems pretty good to me especially with a hand like KTs, there's only one person that has position on him, and if he can buy them out he's at a good spot. Plus the flop was pretty good for him, he had 15 outs to get top pair or better including the 2nd nut flush. 15 outs twice means he's at WORST only a 2 to 1 dog, especially since no one showed too much strength PF as to put them on pocket pairs (especially not above TT)

I might have limped with that preflop, but raised bigger after the flop hoping to knock anyone with overcards out, and after failing to get a free card on the turn (even though it was almost free), he's still got 15 outs to top pair or better. Not to mention the guy betting on the turn probably didn't have anything, and made a very weak move to say the least, maybe he had a straight draw of some kind, or MAYBE an 8. Hero still has 15 outs, I would have raised there too.

That big a pot and the board pairs while he has the 2nd nut flush I would call almost anything on the river. You can't be sure enough of a full house that you would fold. MAYBE in a tournament if someone check-raised me on the river I would fold, but there I would have bet exactly the way you did (maybe smaller to encourage them to call, the nut flush wouldn't fold and the full house wouldn't fold, so you might as well have them call and get beaten) and won the pot exactly the way you did.

Betting a draw is to protect the hand in case you miss the flush. You want anyone with an Ace or a bigger king to fold after the flop, in case you miss the diamond but a king lands. You also don't want to give anyone with a pair (or even worse 2 pair) a free card to hit the full house. Someone with 2 pair probably wouldn't have checked to you though, and if they did then they wouldn't have FOLDED on the river like that. Same with the nut flush, if you had bet smaller on the river you may have gotten weaker hands (like the ones your opponents had this time) to call, but if they had the nut flush or a boat they would have called anything. That's why I see a smaller raise on the river...

If I'm wrong someone let me know, I'm here to learn

Agreed shagnscoob.

Draws are rough to play, but you could have bet more as a feeler bet just because of the low flop.

Betting on draws are all situational. Depends on the tournament setting (SnG, MTT, cash) as well as positioning.