Better to learn poker in cash games or play money?

I have been playing poker for a short time. I am trying to get better and so I am doing a lot of reading/practicing. I have been playing online as well for many hours. The thing is, how can I get better when its play money? People go in with literally anything? If I raise, its basically the entire table calling my raise so I end up going up against everyone. In cash games I am pretty sure it wouldnt happen that way. Im just confused at what is the best way to practice and learn poker.

Was just thinking that we haven't had a good Play vs real money pow wow for a while.

I fall on the play money side in this argument, whether tourney or ring. There is a good 60% of the game that you can learn for free.

Among those things will be anything that is not money related. LDO right?

-position
-starting cards
-reading other players (via their bet patterns)
more positions

but most importantly probably is;

WHEN TO FOLD!

The money things that, IMO, might be better learnt at Cash tables will be when and how, and how much to bet and raise. You can learn these things at play money tables, but for the most part you will be spending a lot of time trying to break above the micro play money tables to the big buy-in play money tables where some decent poker can be found. Getting to those upper levels is not easy. But maybe, in the process, you will figure out how to deal with those shot gunning sob's you mention in your post. You will also be learning a bit about bankroll management, as your play money goal should be about a million chips.

Free is better than losing your money to anyone better than you. The other school of thought basically is 'Pay your dues'.

if you want to be a solid play money player then practice with play money. If you want to have even a half decent game you must play real money. You cannot simulate the feelings you will have when put in a difficult spot for all your REAL money when u are playing for chips that have no perceived value to the player who holds them. Cash all the way

you can be a solid play money player?

level!

I say start at cash, but 2nl isn't much better imo.

This is a very good question.

Either way you have to loose to get that memory. But RM players play better and can teach you in the real world.

I have no idea myself, but I'll be watching this thread with interest.

To start with, I wouldn't ignore anything that dj says to you.

Honestly? Not much. According to my play money stats I'm up $2.5 million, according to my real money stats I'm up £20.00, lol. Play money isn't that useful when practising for real money. Best thing to do: Read articles written by good players, try and incorporate that into your game, don't play drunk.

doomasiggy said:

Honestly? Not much. According to my play money stats I'm up $2.5 million, according to my real money stats I'm up £20.00, lol. Play money isn't that useful when practising for real money. Best thing to do: Read articles written by good players, try and incorporate that into your game, don't play drunk.

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haha don't play drunk.

good advice, never tried it!

played high once, starting leveling myself.

and then leveling the leveling I was doing.

so I was on like level 14, against level 1 players..

still won

but yah, is there any serious play money games?

not taking the piss, just asking.

Campbell92 said:

haha don't play drunk.

good advice, never tried it!

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Lol. It's something I need to learn to do tbh. I come back from a party or a uni hangout or from a general pissup with the lads and I'm like: Let's play a few hands of 20nl, then boom, blown a huge chunk of my bankroll. And by a huge chunk, I mean all of it.

played high once, starting leveling myself.

and then leveling the leveling I was doing.

so I was on like level 14, against level 1 players..

still won

but yah, is there any serious play money games?

not taking the piss, just asking.

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Not really no. You'll get things like people flat calling a 6x raise preflop with 9s5s, then shoving into a J 3 A flop because: "he'll fold". I think it's good if you want to memorise the rules, but not for much more.

Actually yeah, that's my judgement: Play money is good for learning the rules of poker. It's good for learning really basic stuff, but it means **** all when talking about learning how to play poker properly.

c

Campbell92 said:

you can be a solid play money player?

level!

I say start at cash, but 2nl isn't much better imo.

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I honestly think 2NL is alot harder to beat than even high stakes play money. I looked at a table once and basically everyone was a complete drooler. UTG 10x raise pre, 6 to the flop in full ring, it was wtf bad.

BlueNowhere said:

c

I honestly think 2NL is alot harder to beat than even high stakes play money. I looked at a table once and basically everyone was a complete drooler. UTG 10x raise pre, 6 to the flop in full ring, it was wtf bad.

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Just my two cents:

I think a lot of the time people that play higher levels go down a few levels and don't realise that the people they're playing against simply don't think about the cards the same way they do. At 2nl, people aren't really thinking: Okay, what's my equity, what does my opponent think I have, what does my opponent think I think they have etc. The good players at 2nl are generally just playing their cards, the bad players are just spewing all over the place; which is probably why you're seeing a lot of wtf bad play when you moved back down to 2nl.

Also, for the record, 2nl is most definitely NOT harder to play than high stakes play money.

Play money vs. real money: A lot of people used to split the difference and play on full tilt.

doomasiggy said:

Just my two cents:

I think a lot of the time people that play higher levels go down a few levels and don't realise that the people they're playing against simply don't think about the cards the same way they do. At 2nl, people aren't really thinking: Okay, what's my equity, what does my opponent think I have, what does my opponent think I think they have etc. The good players at 2nl are generally just playing their cards, the bad players are just spewing all over the place; which is probably why you're seeing a lot of wtf bad play when you moved back down to 2nl.

Also, for the record, 2nl is most definitely NOT harder to play than high stakes play money.

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I go look at highest stakes play money table and this is first hand. Find me a 2NL table where you seem someone in a 560bb pot and turns over a gutshot

pokerstars Hand #77649208528: Hold'em No Limit (100/200) - 2012/03/22 23:50:39 WET [2012/03/22 19:50:39 ET]
Table 'Aase II' 9-max (Play Money) Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: vlademir vla (34100 in chips)
Seat 2: zorro237 (39300 in chips)
Seat 3: boss630713 (120400 in chips)
Seat 4: brasuca1963 (548900 in chips)
Seat 5: emilio1932 (9100 in chips)
Seat 6: marcmarq (99200 in chips)
Seat 7: 38bandit (334600 in chips)
Seat 8: CARBI_RJ (43500 in chips)
Seat 9: zamfir_alin (339225 in chips)
38bandit: posts small blind 100
CARBI_RJ: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
zamfir_alin: calls 200
vlademir vla: calls 200
zorro237: folds
boss630713: calls 200
brasuca1963: calls 200
emilio1932: raises 8900 to 9100 and is all-in
marcmarq: folds
38bandit: folds
CARBI_RJ: folds
zamfir_alin: calls 8900
vlademir vla: calls 8900
boss630713: folds
brasuca1963: calls 8900
*** FLOP *** [Jd 2s 5s]
zamfir_alin: checks
vlademir vla: checks
brasuca1963: bets 15200
zamfir_alin: calls 15200
vlademir vla: calls 15200
*** TURN *** [Jd 2s 5s] [Jh]
zamfir_alin: checks
vlademir vla: checks
brasuca1963: bets 9800
zamfir_alin: calls 9800
vlademir vla: calls 9800 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Jd 2s 5s Jh] [Tc]
zamfir_alin: checks
brasuca1963: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
zamfir_alin: shows [Ah 3c] (a pair of Jacks)
vlademir vla: shows [Td Ts] (a full house, Tens full of Jacks)
brasuca1963: mucks hand
vlademir vla collected 75000 from side pot
emilio1932: mucks hand
vlademir vla collected 36900 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 111900 Main pot 36900. Side pot 75000. | Rake 0
Board [Jd 2s 5s Jh Tc]
Seat 1: vlademir vla showed [Td Ts] and won (111900) with a full house, Tens full of Jacks
Seat 2: zorro237 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: boss630713 folded before Flop
Seat 4: brasuca1963 mucked
Seat 5: emilio1932 mucked
Seat 6: marcmarq (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: 38bandit (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: CARBI_RJ (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: zamfir_alin showed [Ah 3c] and lost with a pair of Jacks

Once you understaned the basics of online play & are comfortable with the site, real money is the way to go, even at the highest buyin levels of play money, -ev play is common & rewarded which leads to bad habits & delusions as to ones ability.
If it ain't real, it don't matter.

Yea. When it comes to the rules, I understand them perfectly. For example what is a split pot, which hand beats what. And when it comes to raising, I do bet percentage wise based on the pot size. But really, who does that in play money? I see people bet 10x the pot pre-flop, and then bet SB come the turn. They dont know what theyre doing. This then causes me to play extremely loose and not do things that I feel I would not do in a cash game or against real competition. I am pretty good also (when playing against good players rarely) calling my opponents hand. I probly get it right about 1/3 of the time. But its just I feel I am not going to improve my skills working with people like that.

bbrrookie said:

Yea. When it comes to the rules, I understand them perfectly. For example what is a split pot, which hand beats what. And when it comes to raising, I do bet percentage wise based on the pot size. But really, who does that in play money? I see people bet 10x the pot pre-flop, and then bet SB come the turn. They dont know what theyre doing. This then causes me to play extremely loose and not do things that I feel I would not do in a cash game or against real competition. I am pretty good also (when playing against good players rarely) calling my opponents hand. I probly get it right about 1/3 of the time. But its just I feel I am not going to improve my skills working with people like that.

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well then why is this a question?

real money dude.

if you start out losing it will be your money though.

(note: you want to play bad players)

Campbell92 said:

well then why is this a question?

real money dude.

if you start out losing it will be your money though.

(note: you want to play bad players)

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Thats what scares me the most lol i know i gotta get over this fear taking losses

I'd suggest you learn to make play money first. People do all kinds of crazy things at the play money tables, but you see some of the same crap at the real money games at the micro levels. Play money tournaments are a lot like real money tournaments although players are a bit tighter in the real money tournaments.

Get a feel for the game in play money and when you've started to show a long term profit, invest some real money into your hobby and try making some money at the micro limit tables.

I long ago graduated to real money, but I was an avid play money player and advocate for a long long time. I still play freerolls, and lately have been playing the ZOOM PLO games at stars. I would play real but I'm USA.

I learned the intricacies of the game via play money and reading and more playing and reading. I have only deposited 3 times, and one of those was so I could turn around and withdraw. I have a recreational player bankroll, that by and large grows.

If you are young and in a hurry, waste your real money against the sharks, they will be happy to take your money and teach you a lesson or 2, or 20.

I contend that the highest level play money tourneys are better than the cheapest micro tourneys.

Play freerolls, win a few, start a 'not out of pocket' bankroll to grow...like a garden. It is remarkable how many regulars here have done just that......Free, except for the time involved enjoying the game.

i started out as a play money player on Pokerstars over 8 years ago, they taught me alot about online poker.....played them for a couple of months and went to play money SNGs......
then found the tourneys for play money .....playing tournament play money was the straw for me.....I didn't feel the play was the same as what I found in the freerolls for real money........went to real money and never went back to playing for play money till black Friday and the games there from Cardschat.
I would also have to say tournament play for real money best......but those early play cash tables on Pokerstars was where I learned to play and would stack the play in those by most players high rate. You are gonna find bad play/players in every facet of Poker.

alaskabill said:

Play money vs. real money: A lot of people used to split the difference and play on full tilt.

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:rofl:

dj11 said:

I long ago graduated to real money, but I was an avid play money player and advocate for a long long time. I still play freerolls, and lately have been playing the ZOOM PLO games at stars. I would play real but I'm USA.

I learned the intricacies of the game via play money and reading and more playing and reading. I have only deposited 3 times, and one of those was so I could turn around and withdraw. I have a recreational player bankroll, that by and large grows.

If you are young and in a hurry, waste your real money against the sharks, they will be happy to take your money and teach you a lesson or 2, or 20.

I contend that the highest level play money tourneys are better than the cheapest micro tourneys.

Play freerolls, win a few, start a 'not out of pocket' bankroll to grow...like a garden. It is remarkable how many regulars here have done just that......Free, except for the time involved enjoying the game.

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On stars the players that play the 200,000 play chip sng's are not fish they are serious contenders. You can learn a lot from them. Set yourself a goal like winning 1 million chips. See if you can attain it. If not I would be careful wagering any real money until you can. Then try keeping it for some good practice at BR management. BTW I do not mean winning a million chips by a lucky night at the 40K AIF tables. Earn it playing the 80,000 and up sng's.

I don't see play money games as a realistic comparison of real money. In a play money game you can reload with no consequence , real money not so much.I have always held and still believe that poker isn't really poker if there is no potential loss (even if in all honestly it only amounts to bragging rights) , there is something about having to pony up the loss or collect the win that makes it real . Ask yourself honestly if when put to the test you would be able to call half your roll with 2nd or 3rd nut flush for real money? I know it would be a tough spot for real money --for play money its an instant call. OK for light practice but quite different in real application.

alaskabill said:

Play money vs. real money: A lot of people used to split the difference and play on full tilt.

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Who knows we all might be playing for play money right now. I really do not 100% trust any site but stars. They paid us and probably could have got away with out paying us.

calicard said:

On stars the players that play the 200,000 play chip sng's are not fish they are serious contenders. You can learn a lot from them. Set yourself a goal like winning 1 million chips. See if you can attain it. If not I would be careful wagering any real money until you can. Then try keeping it for some good practice at BR management. BTW I do not mean winning a million chips by a lucky night at the 40K AIF tables. Earn it playing the 80,000 and up sng's.

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def fish, if they were that good they would play real money

To the OP

If you understand the game, then you are ready for real money games.
That being said, play money can be useful for strategic practice.
It doesn't matter if you win or lose, just keep applying the strategies you want
to incorporate into your game.
Players on the play money tables will call your Aces with 7-2os and beat you
but it will still gain you the experience of doing the 'correct' thing in a game
(and trust me, in real money games someone, sometime will still crack your aces)

If you are afraid of losing your money, you have already lost. Don't start playing.

If you are prepared to accept losing at times, even with the best hand but
know how to play smartly, fearlessly and correctly you can become a winning player.

Good luck