Bet sizing Pre flop

steveiam

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I tend to have the same bet size pre flop regardless of hand strength or position. The main reason is to stop people establishing a hand range. Does anybody have any theories on this ?
 
Rappyness

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For me, you should not do that. I believe raising with different sized bet will give you a chance to steal the blinds pre-flop or take the pot post-flop with aggressive play even if your hand misses. You need to vary your play style a bit so other players don't catch on.
 
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For me it depends on my position at the time.
 
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I do the same, I have a membership at the royal flish club and they recommend to do that. for that reason that nobody can get a read on you.
 
Blobweird123

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For me, you should not do that. I believe raising with different sized bet will give you a chance to steal the blinds pre-flop or take the pot post-flop with aggressive play even if your hand misses. You need to vary your play style a bit so other players don't catch on.

Just curious, but what would others catch onto exactly? If I bet 3x bb pre EVERY time then how can I give anything away if im doing this with all of my range?
 
atlantafalcons0

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Just curious, but what would others catch onto exactly? If I bet 3x bb pre EVERY time then how can I give anything away if im doing this with all of my range?
You can't, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I also raise 3x no matter what to keep opponents from getting a read.
 
aa88wildbill

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There are other ways to do that, for instance pocket aces, sometimes push, sometimes large bet, sometimes mid bet, sometimes limp in. We'll do the same thing as you wish to get done. The differences and allow you to steal more often at various positions,flop, trun .river, etc.
 
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I'm usually always in the 2.5-2.75x range and don't mix it up too much unless there's a crazy opponent
 
Leo 50

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I have to admit I will vary it but not very often.
Most of the time if I feel like I have a hand to play I'm going to make it expensive to play with me.
2.5-3x is the norm

Now sometimes, maybe 1 out of 10, if I feel I can catch a fish with
a monster hand I will lower it to 2 but NEVER limp.

:cool:
 
Colbefc

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I never vary my pre flop raise. I used to always raise 3BB but I have been raising 2BB lately and it seems to get the best results and means I can raise more often with less risk.
 
steveiam

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For me keeping the raises pre flop works well especialy in live play.But as always there are situations that i might adjust.
 
EvertonGirl

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I am usually tight/passive but I switch it up to tight/aggresive specially on a premium starting hand pre-flop. I will only call pre-flop if my hand is 10 J, J Q, J A and so on, I just wish to see a flop. I will only fold if I dont hit a pair on the flop.
 
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In cash games, I'll usually 3x open raise. Sometimes just pot it. In MTTs, depending on stack sizes, I'll 3x it in the beginning of an MTT, then as antes come into play and stack get shallower, I'll something between min raise and 2.5.
 
EvertonGirl

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I haven't played many cash games. I normally play the full tilt $150 freerolls. I have not reached the paid places yet, but I did come close once, I reached 56th when I needed 45th. I alos play the UK freeroll at full tilt, this only has about 600 - 700 players in it not like the 7,500 in the $150 one lol :)
 
Ducky7

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I tend to have the same bet size pre flop regardless of hand strength or position. The main reason is to stop people establishing a hand range. Does anybody have any theories on this ?

This is correct, always make it the same sizing preflop with 100% of your range, the only time you can change this is if you are fish a complete maniac fish who wont fold then you can make it a ridiculous amount pre
 
dj11

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Note the self imposed ^^^^ Contrarian description.

By using the same raise all the time, yeah, you avoid giving tells, but you lose the power to influence what your villains think. IMHO, making my villains think what I hope to, I gain more power than by preventing him from reading me. I want him to read me, and I want to control what it is he thinks he is reading.

I vary my raises.
 
Aleksei

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I like minraising preflop. It's low-risk, so I can do it with my entire range (I got a VPIP of about 40% in 6-max, I like seeing a lot of flops), I get more action, and it still establishes me as the aggressor.

Note the self imposed ^^^^ Contrarian description.

By using the same raise all the time, yeah, you avoid giving tells, but you lose the power to influence what your villains think. IMHO, making my villains think what I hope to, I gain more power than by preventing him from reading me. I want him to read me, and I want to control what it is he thinks he is reading.

I vary my raises.
That seems like it could be very profitable if you know how to do it, but it could easily blow up in your face if you're facing low-level players who can't read you properly (especially lagtard maniacs who will 3-bet anything). For the time being, I'm not confident enough in my play to risk it. :D
 
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EvertonGirl

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Yes those maniacs are very annoying, they will go all in with a very weak starting hand, which most of the time makes you throw your stronger hand away.
 
PLAYINBIG

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I myself like to change it up.Lets say you already had a player in mid position bet 3xbb preflop,another player in cut off position also calls 3xbb preflop.Are you just gonna 3x bb preflop call with your pocket K's from the button?I think that would be a bad move because the other players could be holding A/K suited or pocket 10's.That would give them a chance to see the flop and a possible chance of improving their hand to beat yours.Then the very next hand you could even have pocket A,s in cut off position everyone before you on the table, has previously just called.You 3xbb bet. The button calls just because he's got position with 10/j suited.
BB calls pocket 7's Mid calls with K/Q suited. The flop comes Q,K.7.Something like that might not flop but it could then I think the A's are an under dog.When they could of been pushed 10x bb or all in preflop and then everyone would of folded or you could of @ least might of got it down to a heads up showdown instead of a 3 or 4 way showdown.
 
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EvertonGirl

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Thats very good advice playinbig
 
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One of the cardinal sins of NLHE is to vary the size of your preflop raises based on the strength of your hand. Don't do that. Period.

It's fine to vary based on position. For example, 2.5 BB from early, 3 x BB from mid, 3.5 BB from late. Personally, I usually go 2.5 from early-mid; and 3 x mid to late.

This assumes you are the first one to volunteer chips to the pot. If there has already been a raise or limpers, the variables are different and your play should differ as a result.
 
Aleksei

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Yes those maniacs are very annoying, they will go all in with a very weak starting hand, which most of the time makes you throw your stronger hand away.
Don't throw it away. Minstack baby, minstack. :D Then you don't have to give a toss about the risk because the odds say you're getting it back.

One of the cardinal sins of NLHE is to vary the size of your preflop raises based on the strength of your hand. Don't do that. Period.

It's fine to vary based on position. For example, 2.5 BB from early, 3 x BB from mid, 3.5 BB from late. Personally, I usually go 2.5 from early-mid; and 3 x mid to late.
I would say it's better to do it the other way around. In EP you're playing a guessing game and controlling the hand will be very difficult, so you should always 1) play with a very strong hand (I never play anything that isn't premium broadway UTG), and 2) represent it. You want the odds in your favor, you wanna strongly come off as the aggressor, and you want as many people to fold as possible, as bullying a multi-way pot is nearly impossible. Closer to the button your range is wider, and you have more control postflop, so you don't really need to be the bully pre. You can try and buy the blinds for cheap (minraise or whatever), but if you can't it's no big loss.
 
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Aces2w1n

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3BB's ... I only up the preflop raise when theres limpers already played, You get to know where your at and sometimes utg or early position will limp trying to trap you. They'll uncover their strength.
 
WVHillbilly

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You guys need to be less stuck in your ways when it comes to the size of your pf raises. Varying by position makes a ton of sense (and $$s). Raising more in EP when our range is strong and less in LP when we're opening wide.

Varying based on your most likely opponents can also be a gold mine. If the idiot in the BB is playing 70/10, opening to 2.5x or 3x on the BTN is leaving $$s on the table. He's going to cal 3x, 4x, or even 5x with about the same frequency so make him pay a premium.

As long as someone can't judge the strength of your hand based on your opening size, it all good. It's all about maximally exploiting your opponents and you shouldn't remove one of the easiest ways to do that just because the "standard" raise size is 3x.
 
Blobweird123

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I myself like to change it up.Lets say you already had a player in mid position bet 3xbb preflop,another player in cut off position also calls 3xbb preflop.Are you just gonna 3x bb preflop call with your pocket K's from the button?I think that would be a bad move because the other players could be holding A/K suited or pocket 10's.That would give them a chance to see the flop and a possible chance of improving their hand to beat yours.Then the very next hand you could even have pocket A,s in cut off position everyone before you on the table, has previously just called.You 3xbb bet. The button calls just because he's got position with 10/j suited.
BB calls pocket 7's Mid calls with K/Q suited. The flop comes Q,K.7.Something like that might not flop but it could then I think the A's are an under dog.When they could of been pushed 10x bb or all in preflop and then everyone would of folded or you could of @ least might of got it down to a heads up showdown instead of a 3 or 4 way showdown.

If im on btn with kk and a 3x raise+1caller im raising to around 10 bb's. Dunno how correct that is, but I wanna get as much of their monies in pre so when the board shows a bunch of junk and they fold I already made out alright pre
 
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