Being ahead but not being correct to raise?

Weregoat

Weregoat

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So I recently (lol months ago) had a hand that I played wrong because it referred to a concept in poker that I wasn't well versed in. I had the best hand, but wasn't a favorite to win. Here's how the hand went down.

Hero is on BTN with AcKc.
Villain is in the MP+1.

Effective Stacks 200 BBs, stakes 2/3 NL, live cash game.

Several limps, hero raises to 7 BBs. One call, folded to villain, villain calls. Pot ~25 BBs after rake.

Flop: AsQd8s.
Villain checks, Hero bets 20 BBs. 1 fold. Villain raises to 60 BBs.

Now, I've just been check raised on the flop, which means I could be up against a wide variety of hands. But for the sake of the discussion, Let's say I'm up against QsXs, where x isn't K, by some ungodly read.

In this particular scenario I folded, while I wanted to stack off. If I stack off here, and villain calls, he is a favorite to improve the better hand (unless my math is off), he has 9 outs to a flush, two to hit a Q, and three to his kicker, for a total of 14 outs, with an estimated 29% to win on each street, stacking off would be the correct move for the villain.

The correct move would be to call, and if villain doesn't hit one of his obvious (spade or Q) outs, then fire up the big gun, correct?

What is this concept called? Any similar situations?

Sorry, too tired to do my usuall elaboration.

And yes, my read was correct.
 
slycbnew

slycbnew

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Actually, you're flipping against QsXs, where X is not a K, you're not behind.

Board: As Qd 8s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.293% 49.29% 00.00% 488 0.00 { AcKc }
Hand 1: 50.707% 50.71% 00.00% 502 0.00 { QsJs }

Some of his outs you have listed aren't 100% clean - for example, hitting a turned J can be counterfeited by a rivered A, K, T, or 8 - leading to the diff in math.

If Villain had a combo draw, say Ts9s on a As8s7d flop, he's almost 57%.

I think the phrase you're looking for is barely ahead/way behind (BA/WB), but it applies to the range that makes that raise - i.e., his raise could rep fd's, pairs, sets, two pair hands, etc.
 
okeedokalee

okeedokalee

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Yep it was a wet flop and in the zone I fold to a big raise too.:congrats:
 
Weregoat

Weregoat

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Thanks Sly. I thought I was worse off than I was. I really gotta quit being so lazy and get PokerStove. What I was really afraid of was him pairing his kicker and me not seeing it, but that's only happening ~6% of the time on the turn.

In retrospect calling the flop and jamming a non-spade non-queen turn sounds like so much better an idea than the way the hand was played.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Thanks Sly. I thought I was worse off than I was. I really gotta quit being so lazy and get PokerStove. What I was really afraid of was him pairing his kicker and me not seeing it, but that's only happening ~6% of the time on the turn.

In retrospect calling the flop and jamming a non-spade non-queen turn sounds like so much better an idea than the way the hand was played.

Actually with all the dead money already in the pot getting it in on the flop as a coin flip is fine. No need to wait for a "safe" turn.
 
Weregoat

Weregoat

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Actually with all the dead money already in the pot getting it in on the flop as a coin flip is fine. No need to wait for a "safe" turn.

True. Provided my read is right 100% of the time.
 
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