This is a discussion on Beginning Cash Game grinding question. within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; So...
This will probably seem funny to most of the bigger players here, but I went and deposited $10 at PS. (Oooo) and decided to see
This will probably seem funny to most of the bigger players here, but I went and deposited $10 at PS. (Oooo) and decided to see where I could get from there.
Actually made it up to over $30 playing cash games (Due mostly to a few super-lucky hands, really.) but then promptly lost a lot of it trying to play a lot of tourneys.
So I'm back down to my original $10 and trying to grind out some more cash games, but every night feels like this:
Spend 3 hours slowly making $2 or so a few pennies at a time...then I get a hand like AA and shove (Or just bet big) pre-flop, some maniac calls and turns over 63o and hits a set of sixes on the flop and I'm instantly down everything I had made so far.
Is this just normal? Should I expect to consistantly go up 5 pegs over the course of the night and then get dropped down 5, or should I be being far more cautious and just not making big bets period even if I think I have the best hand by far?
It "feels" like I'm playing well because I'll win hand after hand, but always for such small amounts compared to what I'll lose in some confrontation like that. Sooo, I dunno.
24th June 2009, 8:11 PM
Poker at: Ultimate Bet
I have had similar experiences. I think the main cause is the difference between players that are trying to "grind up" from an initial deposit and those who play the low levels as entertainment not worrying about winning or losing (they just deposit more later).
There is little to do about Maniac Callers... they do get lucky sometimes.
Just play your best game and leave the table before your TILT light shines
25th June 2009, 12:38 AM
Up about $4 at the .02 table...then within 10 hands the same guy gets:
Full house against my flush
Flush against my straight
Set against my two pair
Sigh. Down to $6 now, huzzah.
Just not sure how you can make long term profit like this.
25th June 2009, 12:43 AM
Its hard to start with $10, even $20 you risk going broke at 2nl even if you can beat it handily longterm.
25th June 2009, 1:00 AM
Online Poker at: Bovada
re: Poker & Beginning Cash Game grinding question.
I have myself switched to mostly limit ring games.
I was for along time focused on MTT and sng play that I didnt even focus on ring games.
I started playing ring games from money earned in a freeroll and very rarley play MTT or SNGS nemore.
If you are starting with such a small bankroll I would suggest reading a limit he book and giving it a try.
It is a patience game and takes longer to show profit but IMHO it is more profitable with such a small br.
25th June 2009, 1:22 AM
Eh, just blew the rest of my money on watching my KK get cracked by 64o and my AA getting cracked by J2.
Forget it. I don't have the patience to keep playing lotteries like this. =/
25th June 2009, 2:09 PM
Online Poker at: Ultimate Bet
I second the notion of switching to a Fixed Limit table. It won’t keep you from going broke, but it will protect you from the All-In Maniac.
Try reading Lee Jones’s “Winning Low-Limit Hold 'em” .
I hold my breath when going All-In pre-flop even with AA or KK. AA vs. 76s is still only a 77% win probability... that other 23% is still out there. It will bite you 1 out of 4 times.
Patience is the key (especially at the penny tables). If you start to run badly, leave and come back later. Lady Luck can be fickle at times.
25th June 2009, 3:08 PM
Micro tables tend to have relatively high variance because the amounts of money in play aren't very meaningful, which is why people are willing to play big pots with small hands. There are a couple of things you can do. One is to select tables where there's less of this going on, although keep in mind that lower variance can come at the cost of lower EV.
The other is to play big pots only when you have big hands. In that regard, remember that the same hand doens't always have the same value depending on the situation. Two pair is an easy example; it can be fairly vulnerable or quite strong depending on the action, the texture of the board, which pairs you have, whether both or just one are split, etc.
25th June 2009, 9:10 PM
Thank you all for your suggestions. =)
Just very frustrating to me...seems like money is made in poker on a razor's edge, just barely squeaking out small profits while narrowly avoiding disasters. Until one of them lands squarely on your head.
26th June 2009, 9:38 AM
re: Poker & Beginning Cash Game grinding question.
Bovinty it is possible, i'll show you my graph from partypoker. $20 deposit and i'm upto $350. However, i'd say i'm quite a competent player for micros. If you look at the BR management for me at 2/4c it must be aound 2-3buyins. I think i've had a couple of 3buyin downswing over 55,000. So they don't come across that often and the variance is low. it probably wasn't variance..i had sections where i'd be experimenting and had some minor tilt if i remember rightly.
In the big pots, it is about experience and getting a feeling for what hands are plus EV. I had a good eg from before SB complete and i'm in the the BB. The pot was 8c and i had 37s. Board 37Q and turn 3 and he jams his entire stack in over my raise for $5. So the pot was about 24c and he puts $5 in with 36s. Which is a good hand..but what am i calling with? only hands that has his shoving range crushed ie 77, QQ(i'd raise, but he wouldn't know as with 77) and there r more combos above his 6s. So he is likely to lose if i call it.
So he shuld have tried to get to SD. These r the things u pick up over time and experience. You start to win more of the bigger pots. Also, you can fold KK PF as i find many nits only stack with AA. So i raise for info, if they shove i let my Kings go.
err what else, ye it is experience. I find i notice more things recently - bet sizing tells, timing tells, i can calculate roughly what range their playing using HEM. It all comes with experience. Still a long way to go of course.
Good luck with it. I'd try and play more tables, but if ur new perhaps stay with 2-4 for a bit. It would take an eternity to built ur BR with 1table and my graph is from 12 tables +
28th June 2009, 5:44 PM
Online Poker at: Full Tilt
If you are new to this, I would suggest you to deposit 50$, and learn to play the micro limits with them. Read articles, review your own hands, keep track of your results. You're not looking for immediate profit, but for experience and confidence at these limits.
If you take it seriously enough, you will eventually earn them back and a lot more, but you need to learn how to do it first.