Beginner Books & Bad Beats Advice Pls...

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Dazzle01

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Hi all,

I am a relative newbie to the wonderful game of holdem, playing all my games online. I am using 2c/4c cash tables and some freeroll tournaments to build my experience and have set myself some modest targets for gradual improvement.

I have also bought some books which I have dipped in and out of in the past few months including Texas Holdem for Dummies, Mammoth book of Poker by Paul Mendelson, and How to Win on Internet poker (can't remember the author). If anybody has any suggestions on other good beginner books I am open to suggestions to put on my list to Father Christmas!!

What prompted me to post on here today was what I consider to have been 3 bad beats I suffered last night which coast me $6. I know that's not the end of the world, but that's quite a lot to lose in 2 hours on 9-handed 2c/4c tables.

My starting hands were QQ, AA and KK in that order, so I will replay them here:

QQ

I was on the button, there were 2 limpers to me and I raised to 3BB; the blinds folded, as did one of the callers so I was left heads up with the player to my left. The flop was rainbow J,4,5; my opponent checked, I raised half the pot, he called. The turn was the 8 of clubs; he checked, I bet three quarters of the pot and he called again. The river was the 7 hearts (giving a straight to anything with a 6 in the hole). He then bet out with a pot-sized $1.70 raise; I ended up folding so will never know what he held.

I realise the community was very unfortunate for me and that he could have been bluffing but was there anything more I should have done to protect my Queens??

AA

I was 5th to play in an 8 handed round (is that middle or late?). The table folded to the guy to my left who made a 2BB raise. I re-raised to 4BB, everyone else folded and my opponent called. Flop was rainbow Q,J,8. He bet half, I raised double, he raised again so I raised again. Then went all-in with $3 and I called. He showed QJ (trips on the J). The community cards fell Q3 and he raked it in...

KK

I was in the small blind; there was a caller, then a raiser of 2BB. I raised 4BB, the big blind folded and both my opponents called. The flop fell 9h,10c,5h. I bet out three quarters of the pot, one opponent folded and the other called. The turn was 3h; I bet the pot, my opponent raised all in, I called. He showed hole cards 10h,10d, giving him trips and a flush draw. The river was the 4d so he raked the pot with the trips.

In this hand, I was anticipating the flush draw but not the trips; should I have done?

Thanks for reading and if anyone has any feedback on how I played it would be appreciated. Personally I feel that I was mostly unlucky but I am braced for criticism!

Thanks all, hope to hear from some of you soon.
 
Sil3ntness

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I'm no expert, but I believe your raises are too small. You are giving those speculative hands good pot odds to see the flop and crack your premium hands.

The QQ story: You need to raise MORE preflop. 3 BB raise is not going to get rid of both those limpers.

https://www.cardschat.com/isolating-limpers-poker-isolation-raise.php

^^^ Forget the poker books. READ THIS! Your 3 BB raise should be standard if there were no limpers. Here you have two limpers and you only did a 3 BB raise. You set yourself up for some trouble by giving them good pot odds to flat call and see the delicious flop for cheap.

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AA you did it again!!! Your 3 bet is way too small! The guy did a min raise... fire a bigger 3 bet and take their money preflop. The guy/gal that did a min raise was probably thinking "sure I'll flat call for an extra two BBs".

You were pretty much dead on the flop when they hit two pair. That 3 bet on the flop should of sent signals in your head that they either have hit 3 of a kind or two pairs. That min raise preflop can be in the range of QJ / J8 suited. Sometimes you gotta make that tough fold and let go of your premium hand if you know they are not bluffing you. AA is a great hand until you lose all your money because you can't fold top pair.

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KK... I'm sounding like a broken record. You did it again. 3 bet MORE preflop. Unfortunately you ran into 3 10s on the flop though. The flat call on the flop & then the shove on the turn should of set some alarm bells off though.
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Overall it's a learning experience. TAKE NOTES! Now you know that these people will shove on you with two pair or 3 of a kind on the flop. Unfortunately you didn't get to find out the QQ story's hand, but now you know that if you raise a higher amount you can feel out a better hand range on your opponents. Also it builds up value in the pot for future streets.
 
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TomLeach

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Yep, you need work on bet sizing :)
You may also need to re-evaluate the way you rank cards... AA and KK are great preflop, but sometimes you have to fold them, if you have KhKd and the flop is 7s8s9s, and you're getting three bet, you might not be so good with 1pair...

Re books: slansky, ed miller and Harrington are what you want. Or me as a coach ;)
 
thetick33

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first losing money is part of learning. I doubt anyone ever played who didnt lose a bit at the beginning to learn what does and doesnt work for them. Second ya the betting? So your saying your betting 6 cents and expecting people to get out of the way? Really? Try guy raises 6 cents I raise 28 lol if he wants to play? Well it happens if he catches and I lose 2.00? Oh well. That is my stance I dont play at the table with things that I cannot lose. I have lost aa to 24 in 10.00 buy ins lol where they went all in before me out of position everything I have to call lol.

bad beats happen to all of us with these I think your too cute or timid. Want play just dont want to lose lol. To me that is wrong attitude is not how I think or play. I get AA i think someone PLEASE GET STUPID lol.

If I lose AA I have forgotten it by the next hand even if takes me out of a tournament. I have a short term memory loss on beats whether good or bad. Guess is playing 10,000 of thousands of hands or whatever.

I restarted poker a month ago just so you understand I used to play for a living. you dont know me and I dont know you but hope we become friends just letting you know for me and you a 6.00 loss would be devastating at this time. I am playing for pennies and working up like you and freerolls.

Right now four days of terrible beats and cards but you know what? I play solid? The cards will change a rush is going to come and im gonna get paid:) I realize that. Thats what you have to hang you hat on knowing you are playing solid maybe not your betting but hand wise etc.. In time you will figure it out. Just know that at every level not just pennies you got guys who DONT CARE. You got guys who will play queen five off on your all in for 50 bucks or 200 bucks or whatever trust me it happens:)

The rule dont have what cant lose. Have a short term memory on bad beats they cant affect you. Poker comes out even imho so if you take the time learn the game you will come out ahead in long run if you respect it.

I play to win and love of the game not the money. Even though could seriously use money:) The love comes first the competition the mixing of minds out smarting people setting them up out playing them its all part of it. Tonight played in oss event on blackchip poker

I got my money back came out like 20 cents ahead for buy in had to re enter once. I went for it though and got a bad beat but I fully expected first place went out 70th guy caught runner runner after missing the flop and me all in with ace on board and ace in hand lol he hit a queen than ten lol. It happens. Pot was like 28 k he called another 20 with being left with another 25 total if gets beat. Maybe thought was bluff who knows.

Bad luck is way cards are right now for me but no worries cause it comes out even and soon maybe not tomorrow or the next day those hands hold and I win pretty well. Moral of story I wanted the first prize of 48.00 bucks but wanted more to be known at this time as winning that event honestly. I seriously want to win one of those oss events lol. Was a 25 plus 2 cent buy in is a couple more like that one the ninth I know of will give a shot:)

Know your reason to play if your only playing for money? Well that might not be enough imho and could set you up for failure I have watched some friends go big and go broke. Set rules also change betting patterns try things at times if you dont care about losing you are a lot more dangerous.
 
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I agree with thetick33 here.

Bad beats suck, but they happen and the tick us off. I just had one with QQ vs AJ with a J52 rainbow flop, they hit their ace on the river.

Basically all you can do is review your play, as you are doing, see if there was any mistake on your part (Sil3ntness knows much more than I, and the advice is solid)

And stop playing until you can go back with it with a clear head. Thetick33 gets back quickly. I need an hour or two doing something else to vent my frustrations. You? I don't know, only you know that. Not coming back fresh headed and not looking for errors in play are the biggest mistake you could have made, and ones you have avoided.

The cards are fickle, they'll come back to favor you sooner or later :)
 
TomLeach

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I played (just under) 5000 hands the other day (over 24 hours), and In that time, i witnessed AA< KQ KK<JJ JJ<AT full house getting beat by a gut shot straight flush on the river, betting and people hitting their four card flush/straight on the river... Its about volume, you play this game knowing you (almost) never have an absolute lock hand, and if you're playing a cash game, you WANT those 30%ers calling you.. and 30% of the time, they're going to crack your aces...

If you need to take time out, take a breather (meditate!) and youll be back with a clear head and not spew the rest of your BR about.
 
bredstik

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I totally sympathize with your situation. I was in a tourney recently where I was the chip leader at a table, and in 3 consecutive hands I was dealt KK, AK, AA. Lost all 3 of them and was knocked out of the tournament. It happens. Even when you play it right, someone still may call and draw out on you.

That being said, the only thing I would think in your situation would have been to raise more initially. When there are already multiple players in the pot, or someone has already raised it to 2BB, raising to only 4BB isn't going to drive out enough players. If they're already priced in, they're going to call.
 
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Dazzle01

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Thanks all for helpful tips. I feel I am learning the game more, reading lots and getting better but am still suffering losses. For example I lost 75bbs last night playing AQo from the button against 44 when he hit trips on the flop to my pair of aces with Q overcard kicker. He had called first preflop, I raised 4BBs and he called. Then he slow played me to the river. I played aggressively, he just gave me rope to hang myself with!

I never put him on trips... was he loose in calling my 4BB raise then passively calling with his bottom card trips with 4 overcards and me playing aggressively? Should I have raised more preflop (he was new to my table so I had no real read of him).
 
horizon12

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Thanks all for helpful tips. I feel I am learning the game more, reading lots and getting better but am still suffering losses. For example I lost 75bbs last night playing AQo from the button against 44 when he hit trips on the flop to my pair of aces with Q overcard kicker. He had called first preflop, I raised 4BBs and he called. Then he slow played me to the river. I played aggressively, he just gave me rope to hang myself with!

I never put him on trips... was he loose in calling my 4BB raise then passively calling with his bottom card trips with 4 overcards and me playing aggressively? Should I have raised more preflop (he was new to my table so I had no real read of him).

This is a big mistake, when your stack deep +80bb with only top pair it is not necessary to play on whole stack...
 
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hffjd2000

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Bet sizing please.

Newbie books: Ed Miller books (small stake), Winning low limit by Lee Jones, Little Green Book, etc.
 
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Dazzle01

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Thanks Horizon; I think in doing that I got mixed up between using suggested tactics for tournament play (where generally raises are higher and more aggressive) and cash play.

hffjd, by bet sizing do you mean the same thing as Horizon? Or are you also suggesting making a larger raise with a premium hand pre-flop? I thought 4BBs was a good-sized raise in that situation...?

By the way, it was a 5c/10c table I was playing on
 
bracadelija

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That is why this poker these things simply happen nobody likes but without it there would be no intersting.Bat in a number of hand top two teams more so after these falls can be expected gains. While this is going on in the dreadful game although it seems to me online in a little more than I should, and for that reason always big raise pre-flop strongly or decide to limp on someone's flight call all in.
 
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toshiba

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Personally, I like watching videos on youtube. Gripsed is great. JCarver is great. Those are the 2 most popular I think but there are some gems out there that are lessor known
As far as bad beats. I agree with other people. Your raises are too small. It always cracks me up. AK people with 3x+ the pot. AA it's like 2.3x.
Me personally at those stakes, if I 3bet I make it at least 4x, x being whatever they raised to. So if they raised to 10cents. I'd make it 40cents. If you are unsure about bet sizing when you have premiums, just click that 'pot' button. Don't allow limpers and other riff raff to have the right price to try and crack your aces.
As far as bad beats go. It's only a bad beat if you put your money in ahead. To further the purpose, A2 vs K3 i is not a bad beat. It's slightly worse than a coin flip. If you put your money in ahead that's all you can do. Run the cards dealer. Once the money goes into the pot it no longer belongs to you. It belongs to the pot. The poker gods shall decide at that point.
 
LinkornU

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Yes, the problem is in bet-sizing. Your opponents won't hit the flop everytime, but why to give them even a chance when you have such a hand.
 
Landopope

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I enjoyed reading Crushing the Microstakes by Blackrain. He teaches a lot on bet sizing and how to adjust your raise with limpers.
 
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