Been Playing for 3+ yrs but this is One of My First Strategy Posts

Hi All,
I've played online poker regularly since August 2005. And for almost all of that time I've only had sporadic success. Mostly a huge losing career. But, occasionally a huge win here and there. Very frustrating.

I moved to Vegas and just before coming back east, one of my poker coaches gave me a hint about my cash game, which was $4-8 limit. He told me a 'story' about Johnny Carson's Tonight Show. Johnny had a skit about the fictional Fuquai tribe. They would get lost I guess, somewhere in the audience or on the set, and someone would ask, "Where the Fuquai" As in Where the Fu*k Are We? He told me that if I insist on seeing a marginal hand to ask my self that Fuquai question immediately after the flop and if I'm 'lost' (going to lose) with not enough outs, GET OUT OF THE HAND.

This has tighhtened up both my cash and tournament game so much, that I have begun winning consistently, online. I haven't been back to Vegas since we began our lessons, so I can only use the advice online, but it does seem to be working. In short, GET OUT OF A HAND IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO WIN. And the bluffing? the one who has you beat is the one who is doing the calling, letting you do his betting for him; in essence burying yourself. Slow, down, ask yourself what better hands are there out there than yours? If there are and you can't improve to beat that better hand, then fold. If your tournament life depends on it, don't be a hotshot.

thanks for the post Jane. so you are saying that you take a sort of conservative, thinking approach to the game, rather than the aggressive fire bullets on every street approach?

Yes, thinking of long term goal of staying alive, rather than beat the players over the head to make them succumb. I have to be aware enough to know that I'm beat...not too meek and passive, but selectively aggressive. I used to love calling all ins with AKs...now, I no longer do this. If there are several folks all in, I fold and let them beat each other out of the tourney. I won't call several folks' all-in with anything less than AA or KK. Too many people in the hand. I don't have to sacrifice my chips with a drawing hand, even the best drawing hand. You won't find alot of me bluffing to steal. I too often got caught and sent to the rail. I know there are people who say 3 bet preflop with nothing. Sure, if you're that good to get away with it, try it; I'm not, so I only get aggressive when I feel I have the best of it. No one gets hurt, but yourself when you bluff all your chips away.

chiefer77 said:

thanks for the post Jane. so you are saying that you take a sort of conservative, thinking approach to the game, rather than the aggressive fire bullets on every street approach?

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Is this approach for limit, no limit, both, or poker in general?

It has been working for me for the last 3 months in low limit ($2.20, $5.5, $11 tourneys, including rebuy tourneys). I really need to work on my NL game. It works GREAT on $1-2 Limit for me. I need to use this same discipline on my NL game. I really fall back on old, bad poker playing there and I don't know why? Any suggestions? Please?

ya know what i have done. and it may seem silly but it helped me. i wrote out little notes for myself, and taped them to my laptop, around the border of my screen. they remind me to slow down and think before i just start firing away. but i also have notes that tell me to be aggressive when needed.

pkrplr4116 said:

It has been working for me for the last 3 months in low limit ($2.20, $5.5, $11 tourneys, including rebuy tourneys). I really need to work on my NL game. It works GREAT on $1-2 Limit for me. I need to use this same discipline on my NL game. I really fall back on old, bad poker playing there and I don't know why? Any suggestions? Please?

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i think a way to keep disciplined in your game is to slow down, take more time to make your decisions and think everything thru before hitting raise or whatever. think about your hand from all angles, think about what ur image is, who is left to act and their playing style, stack sizes compared to blinds and other factors that we sometimes neglect to think about. easier said that done tho

This is a very sensible approach for a beginner to take Jane, thanks for posting it.

The thing that so many players forget is what the other players are holding and focus too much on their own hand.

Case in point, I was playing a live MTT last night, 200bb deep against the button, I call a small raise with 66 from the small blind and flop top set. I C/R all in and he calls. He has JJ and I win. I asked after the hand why he called, he said I could'nt have had much when I called from the SB, I say I could have had a set. He walked away.

You have to call it with AK suited if you are the big stack - no therway about it - sometimes it is you who has to take others out in the sng

pkrplr4116 said:

It has been working for me for the last 3 months in low limit ($2.20, $5.5, $11 tourneys, including rebuy tourneys). I really need to work on my NL game. It works GREAT on $1-2 Limit for me. I need to use this same discipline on my NL game. I really fall back on old, bad poker playing there and I don't know why? Any suggestions? Please?

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\/ \/ \/ \/ here's part of the reason. Bad prior training/disciplines.

DupDiDonk said:

You have to call it with AK suited if you are the big stack - no therway about it - sometimes it is you who has to take others out in the sng

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There is no such thing as 'you must' or 'you have to'. I seldom get into forum discussions anymore about what you 'must' and 'must not' do. Too many factors go into making decisions on each and every hand, other than an obvious fold.

NL poker may be all about the math where ring games are concerned. You lose your table stake, you reload and 'IF' you're rolled properly, you'll survive variance - over the YEARS.

Not so with MTT's, imo. You don't just 'reload' in the middle of an MTT (yeah, I know, re-buys.. ..) to survive. You have to accumulate chips, and you also have to KEEP the ones you have in the process...

Online players seem to be satisfied with the "well, I got my money in good" strategy. Appears to go hand-in-hand with the 'you must', 'you have to' and the 'I play to win' players.

Everyone has their own 'what works for me' game. Stick with whatever works for YOU, not what someone else says. You KNOW it works when you are a profitable player. You and your wallet/purse will know.

What keeps me under control in NL MTT's is keeping a focus on what part of my stack is going to be put at risk. In NL you also have to keep in mind how many are left to act and what are they likely to do. It's kept me out of a lot of pots that I'm glad I was never in.

The 3 most important things in poker - patience, patience and patience.

nevadanick said:

There is no such thing as 'you must' or 'you have to'. I seldom get into forum discussions anymore about what you 'must' and 'must not' do. Too many factors go into making decisions on each and every hand, other than an obvious fold.

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+1


Perfectly good example :
Last night I was way deep in an MTT on FT, final table 7 players left and I was okish with chips, the player to my left and I had a scuffle and after a bout of raising and reraising and a shove, I was caught in between a rock and a hard place. I made made 2 pair but I KNEW he had me beat, I suspected a set or a bigger 2 pair.

The pot was over 500k in chips and I had 80k left, I was left with the following descisions.

1. Call. Because I was committed already and you shouldnt fold in this position (as per the "You Must" and "You have to" sentiments mentioned above)

2. Fold. Knowing that I was beat.

I announced my hand and opted to fold. Everyone at the table went ballistic and I was berated for such a bad play because I was committed and I HAD TO call.

The very next hand one player went all in and was bust out taking 7th place money which was $500.71

I landed up going out next and taking the 6th place prize money of $767.22

That fold was worth $267.

Did I make the right descision ? I like to think so.

There have been many tournaments where I have busted out because I was my own worst enemy. I normally play TAG, mainly because i don't have enough experience yet to play the LAG game. Anyways, I'll go deep into a tourney old to bust out because of a seriously bad decision i made. Being out played is one thing, but when you call with top pair and a bad kicker....that's my own fault.

I found out it takes 100% concentration for each hand. One wrong move and your out. That is a major leak i am working on.