is this beating someones range?

Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
OK for example

you put your opponent on a range of 10%

roughly speaking that translates to pairs 66+ any suited ace, AK AQ, KQs QJs + a few other hands.

The flop comes.

You count all the possible hands which could have hit it and assign them the following values

Non suited non pair = 12 } These two may combine to = 16
Suited non pair = 4 }

pair = 6

There are 1326 possible statring hands so the to 10% translates to 132 hands.

There will be some overlap so allow 150 hands for ease.

If the sum of the weighted hands is 75 then you are in the middle of his range.

If the sum = 50 then you beat 2/3 of his range.

Is this, in essence, what people do when figuring out if the beat someones range? admitedly the probably dont do the maths but experience would get you to roughly the same decision.

When beating someones range is a factor on wether or not to continue, would you look to beat 2/3 of his range or would you look for a different figure (roughly speaking)
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

...
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
2,516
Awards
1
Chips
0
OK for example

you put your opponent on a range of 10%

roughly speaking that translates to pairs 66+ any suited ace, AK AQ, KQs QJs + a few other hands.

The flop comes.

You count all the possible hands which could have hit it and assign them the following values

Non suited non pair = 12 } These two may combine to = 16
Suited non pair = 4 }

pair = 6

There are 1326 possible statring hands so the to 10% translates to 132 hands.

There will be some overlap so allow 150 hands for ease.

If the sum of the weighted hands is 75 then you are in the middle of his range.

If the sum = 50 then you beat 2/3 of his range.

Is this, in essence, what people do when figuring out if the beat someones range? admitedly the probably dont do the maths but experience would get you to roughly the same decision.

When beating someones range is a factor on wether or not to continue, would you look to beat 2/3 of his range or would you look for a different figure (roughly speaking)

Use poker stove, assign the villian a range, input your specific starting hand and it will calculate your equity against his range, it if >50% then you are ahead of his range. You will start getting a very good sense of what the villians ranges are that way.

Edit: if you mean while I am playing, no, there isn't enough time to do all that calculation in my head especially multi tabling. I have a sense of house loose or tight they are so I have a good idea of how to proceed. Ranges aren't assigned in a vacuum either. You have to take into account post flop actions as well. If they are very aggressive, them betting doesn't narrow thier range very much, but maybe them 3 betting does so in that case I might raise to win right there and if they three bet me I can then evaluate how I feel my hand holds up to what they are likely to have.

Here is a very specific example. I raise preflop UTG AKo 5xbb. Villian on the button calls he is a 45/7/.6 over 50 hands total fish. If he isn't raising preflop he could have anything so I am not concerned about being oop here, both blinds fold. Flop come Js 7c 2d. I lead a pot sized c-bet here. I have no reason to believe I am not ahead here but in this case He will fold quite often, if he raises I will fold as he is so passive any sign of strength I will need to let the hand go. He could easily have A2, A7, AJ. or QJ, 87, KQ, 99, 88 There are some more in there but you get the idea. He calls. Not unexpected. he is after all a fish and very passive. So the turn comes 10s. Possible straight hits and now a flush draw. I check here, so does the fish. So I don't think he has the straight as he would bet that, he most likely doesn't have a flush draw as that would be back door draw I think he has a one pair hand most likely A2 or something. So the River brings the Kd. So what do I do here? I bet. and here is why, According to the range I put him on through out the hand I am ahead now. He might show up with AQ, or Q9 but that is unlikely, he also could have KJ, K7, or K10 but if that is the case he will likely raise me. He also could have 99,88, hoping for the miracle straight to fill. The majority of the likely hands I am ahead of hear when you mix in the Ax hands that I assigned initially.
 
Last edited:
W

WurlyQ

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Total posts
760
Chips
0
A little clarity would be nice. What is the sum of a weighted hand?

Are you doing this for calculating going over the top preflop?
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
A little clarity would be nice. What is the sum of a weighted hand?


You count all the possible hands which could have hit it and assign them the following values

Non suited non pair = 12 } These two may combine to = 16
Suited non pair = 4 }

pair = 6

from the above quote, a pair would = 6 so if there were 3 possible pairs, the sum would be 18

Are you doing this for calculating going over the top preflop?


The flop comes.

You count all the possible hands which could have hit it and assign them the following values

The sum is calculated after the flop comes, so no this is not to do with comming over the top preflop.
 
Last edited:
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Total posts
13,642
Chips
0
You're just making it more complicated trying to figure out every combo. And you're also complicating postflop with preflop (the flop changes equities drastically). Like steve said, you can just plug it in to pokerstove to get your equity, and thus to know if you're a favourite over your opponent's range in any point of a hand.

Some people are smart and quick enough to roughly calculate their equity in-hand, but what most people do is they do the work away from the table so they know the rough equity of certain types of hands vs certain other types (like top pair vs a flush draw with overs, via pokerstove) and can remember those situations off the top of their head rather than calculating them every time they have a decision.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
Some people are smart and quick enough to roughly calculate their equity in-hand, but what most people do is they do the work away from the table so they know the rough equity of certain types of hands vs certain other types (like top pair vs a flush draw with overs, via pokerstove) and can remember those situations off the top of their head rather than calculating them every time they have a decision.

deff

How much of an equity advantage do you look for though? ..

a bit more than a coin flip??

say 60:40??? 70:30??
 
W

WurlyQ

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Total posts
760
Chips
0
So basically, you're trying to calculate the odds you are ahead post flop depending on the flop?

Like has been previously said, it seems like it would be more efficient to memorize general probabilities for when a face card hits the flop (much like most people just memorize that the probability of hitting draws, trips, etc).

The only time I actually do math at the table is when:
- I think about raising a short stack and whether or not I would be forced to take the right price if they push all in
- Calling an all in due to getting the right price
- I get the right price to hit a draw

Again, this is dependent on knowing what your chances of winning with 2 live cards, etc is.

As for equity advantage, I would think this would wildly depend on the type of player you are playing against. You can have slightly worse odds against a conservative player whereas against someone aggressive, you better consider the possibility of having to commit to a huge pot.
 
Top