Bankroll Mang.

I have been playing online for a little more than a month. I have been playing all over the place limits wise, and i think that might be my problem. I deposited $125.00 and have played at limits ranging from .50/$1 to .5/.10 and everything in the middle both limit and NL its seems like my best sessions were at .25/.50 NL. I play pretty solid poker but cant handle the swings at .50/1 and although I realize with my bankroll I should be playing a lower limit it doesnt seem with it. I guess my question is with the rake and avg pot being so small how am i going to grow my roll or should I just deposit more money so I can play higher?

Dam i deposited that weekly for the first month..gained some experience rapidly and then boom hit a nice win and got all my loses back plus some..Hang in ther mate.

If you can afford to deposit a sufficient amount to play higher with a good bankroll I don't see why you wouldn't. It sounds like you may not take the lower levels seriously, which of course means you likely won't think about your decisions and improve your game.

DaveGogel said:

I have been playing online for a little more than a month. I have been playing all over the place limits wise, and i think that might be my problem. I deposited $125.00 and have played at limits ranging from .50/$1 to .5/.10 and everything in the middle both limit and NL its seems like my best sessions were at .25/.50 NL. I play pretty solid poker but cant handle the swings at .50/1 and although I realize with my bankroll I should be playing a lower limit it doesnt seem with it. I guess my question is with the rake and avg pot being so small how am i going to grow my roll or should I just deposit more money so I can play higher?

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Guess you might be more successful against opponents at 0.25/0.50 then the ones at 0.05/0.10 and lower because they actually know how to play at the higher limits and they did not disactivate the fold button so you can play intelligent and agressive poker to win some money instead of waiting for luck...
However I agree that you are underrolled, you should deposit about 200$ cuz I know more is a pain and play at the 20bbs to 50bbs 0.50 tables that way if u play SS the min buy-in is 5% of your roll and is right and if you play DS the max buy-in is about 10% which people can say it's not enough but if you're comfortable and a little bit lucky at the start you'll hopefully build a healthy bankroll.

Many will disagree with my advice stating you need to beat a lower limit at a table full of fishies that call with anything and thus beat 90% of your dominating hands(one of them has to hit!)...but the fact is that you may only like 3-4 of them at your table to extract value and you may also win cash from smarter opponents. So if that's the case, it's a risk that you may want to take.

Good luck mate :icon_salu!

Deposit more or play at the limit which is correct for your BR. I don;t think there really is another option if you are following proper BRM. Sometimes i sit and think I can;t win because I am playing against people that don't have strategy in mind but basically live for the suckout and nut peddle. Then I think if I am having a hard time beating them I will never be able to beat the players that know the odds and strategies that got them to be winning players at that level.

Thanks for the advice guys, this was my first post and its great to see how fast people respond. I think after reading your posts plus the info already on this site it seems like the best play is to follow proper BRM and drop down some limits as Id rather not deposit more if I dont have too. The last part of my question which no one really got to was about the rake at the mico and can I really make the $100 to move up to higher limit..I should add I have never mutli tabled I was just playing one table .50/$1..Thanks

-Dave

DaveGogel said:

Thanks for the advice guys, this was my first post and its great to see how fast people respond. I think after reading your posts plus the info already on this site it seems like the best play is to follow proper BRM and drop down some limits as Id rather not deposit more if I dont have too. The last part of my question which no one really got to was about the rake at the mico and can I really make the $100 to move up to higher limit..I should add I have never mutli tabled I was just playing one table .50/$1..Thanks

-Dave

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Make the $100 to move up? (move up to what?). If you've only got $125.00 in your account & you don't want to deposit again, there's no way you'd want to be playing at 100nl (with only 1 buyin). Typically you'd want at least 20buyins for the level you're playing at. Playing 10nl would be the highest you should consider playing at with $125

Are you going to be able to build a bankroll at the micros. Perhaps 'slowly'. Regardless, I'd recommend playing at least 10,000 hands at 10nl before moving anywhere (10,000 isn't really that many).
Some players make the rapid bankroll growth but typically you hear of most going busto. I'd look at it as a learning process, so even if you're needing to play a ton of hands in micros.... so what.. it's all just an education towards the journey.

Almost every single person I've met who's in a hurry to make money playing online poker goes broke. They make a big score then go broke.. again... & again, etc. Slow & steady... "FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY"... focus on the game & the money will take care of itself.

I don't have much advice on cash games but for tourneys/sngs, you want at least 60 buy-ins or more(100 recommended). For cash game, I heard a lot from lot of cash game players that it's 20 buy-ins for 50NL and lower, and 100 buy-ins for 100NL and over.

Instead of playing 25NL with $125, why don't you try multi-tabling 10NL or 5NL? It reduces lot of variance, and you can know quickly if you're a solid, consistent player who's crushing the stake or if you're struggling with the stake. Ever heard of this idiom called "Don't put all your eggs in one basket"? Instead of putting majority of your bankroll into one table, try multi-tabling smaller stakes. If you didn't know, I found this girl on pokerstars who has made $600 in 3 weeks by multi-tabling 32 tables of 2NL.

pokerlovesme said:

I don't have much advice on cash games but for tourneys/sngs, you want at least 60 buy-ins or more(100 recommended)

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Wo, I can see 60+ buyins for MTTs and MT SNGs. I play around a 20+ buyin rule for STTs and a 2% (50 buyin) for MTTs. You really don't need such a huge cushion if you are willing to move down.

*Of course when I move to $10s and above I believe I will switch to a 30 buyin rule.

You should work on building you bankroll with what you have. Play at lower stakes that do not risk everything or a large amount of what you have then move up. There are a couple great articles on this from some FT pros http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tip/SteveZolotow/206 and http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tip/CraigMarquis/163

suit2please said:

Wo, I can see 60+ buyins for MTTs and MT SNGs. I play around a 20+ buyin rule for STTs and a 2% (50 buyin) for MTTs. You really don't need such a huge cushion if you are willing to move down.

*Of course when I move to $10s and above I believe I will switch to a 30 buyin rule.

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Many say 20 buy-ins for microstakes because downswings aren't as harsh as higher stakes. However, majority of the people who use 20 buy-in brm still go broke. You do know that 10 buy-in loss downswing is common, right?

Let me provide an example. Assume I have $110. I have 20 buy-ins for $5.5 sngs. Let's say I faced ridiculous downswing of 10 buy-in loss. So now, I'm down to $55. I'm forced to play $2.2 sngs or so according to 20 buy-in brm. Now I gotta win $55 through $2.2 sngs. Even if you're a winning player at the stake who's only facing a little bump on the road, you're forced to move down under 20 buy-in brm.

Now, if I had $550, which is 100 buy-ins and faced 10 buy-in loss downswing. No big deal. Rest up, play again at $5.5 sngs. I can make up $55 through $5.5 sngs, which is lot easier than making $55 through $2.2 sngs.

Making up the downswing loss at the same stake is much easier and better than making up the downswing loss at the lower stake.

This is just my advice. It's upto the OP to see what advice he takes. I personally had trouble with 20 buy-in brm. After reading Leatherass9's book, I decided to take his word for it and try 100 buy-ins. So far, it's been working very well for me.

However, for some people like Tom Dwan, he didn't even need 20 buy-ins. He deposited $50 and jumped right onto $5.5 sngs. I am not Tom Dwan. I don't know what works for the OP but if 20 buy-ins has been working for you, then i'm glad you're doing well. However, I just cannot stand having 20 buy-ins because when I face a ridiculous downswing, I'm forced to move down often and the fact that i have lost half of my roll will psychologically put me on tilt and anger, not to mention how tedious it looks for me to regrind back up from lower stakes. At least if I'm using 100 buy-ins and lost 50 buy-ins, which makes me move down, I won't feel too bad because it's a clear indication that I'm not skilled to beat out the stake I've been playing at. Losing 10 buy-ins can be done because of variance. Losing 50 buy-ins means you're not skilled enough to play at the stake.

pokerlovesme said:

Assume I have $110. I have 20 buy-ins for $5.5 sngs. Let's say I faced ridiculous downswing of 10 buy-in loss. So now, I'm down to $55.

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You forgot to move down a level when you didnt have 20 buyins. With $110, I might play 1 $5 9 person SnG, but a 2nd $5 would put me under 20 buyins so I would move down a level. Thats why I say 20+ buyins, around $100 is a big jump from $2s to $5s, at 110 Id take a shot but losing I would play $2s again until maybe 115-120 before taking a couple more shots at the $5s.

* This is actually where im at now on 2 sites, to run with 20 buyins for STTs you have to be able to move down.

20 BIs for Micro SnG is a little low. Problem is that at most sites $1 is the lowest you can play at. So no matter what this is where you are starting and this is where you are playing. But because the rake at 1 and 2 games is so similar (at FTP anyway) it is best to get to 2 games as fast as you can. I would say that you could play $2 games with 50-100 in your BR but move back down to $1 games under 50.

kmixer said:

20 BIs for Micro SnG is a little low. Problem is that at most sites $1 is the lowest you can play at. So no matter what this is where you are starting and this is where you are playing. But because the rake at 1 and 2 games is so similar (at FTP anyway) it is best to get to 2 games as fast as you can. I would say that you could play $2 games with 50-100 in your BR but move back down to $1 games under 50.

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20 Buyins actually follows fergusons challenge rules with no more than 5%, and your play $2s at $50 to $100 is actually pretty much 20 buyins, thing is 20 buyins is the move down line. Its a perfectly adequate amount if you move down when your going to go below it. Yes when your at the $1 level the rake sucks and you have no where to move down to. Which is pretty much why my SnG graph on Full Tilt looks like crap since most of my profit there is from freerolls and bonuses and I was always cashing out and leaving myself stuck at the $1 level. My 20 buyin (5%) rule I only use for STTs, try to stick to the no more than 2% rule for any MTTs, including multi table SnGs.

my opinion is that there isn t so low game that you must avoid...
micro games for a start is best way...
and with 125$ bankroll you can focus on your game better then looking on your money...