Bankroll Management is for Winning Players Only!

rckstr2b

rckstr2b

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Been seeing a lot of questions about bankroll management, and how much bankroll should you start out with if you’re a beginner, or even intermediate player.

I’m going to answer once a for all this difficult question:

There’s no such thing as bankroll management for losing players!!!!!!

If you are not a “winning” player, meaning you consistently don’t win more than you lose, no matter how much your starting bankroll is, it will only decrease over time if you don’t improve your game.
If you’re a losing player, and you’re having fun, who cares, have fun. Just understand that you don’t have a “poker bankroll”, what you have is a “Poker budget”

if you improve to becoming even a slightly winning player, now you can discuss based on your winning percentage, what a good Bankroll management system would be for your game.

Really hope this helps all the people confused by this.


P.s.
If you disagree with this, you might be a losing player..haha(seriously though)
 
EllinLucky

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It seems to me that everything depends on the goal that you set yourself.
If you aspire to become a professional, you will calculate everything.
And if you lose all the money for the game, you think about your mistakes. And you will try to correct them.
In this case, you will build your bankroll. Otherwise it will be burning money for pleasure. It is also good.
 
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effece

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I totally agree. I do not know if to stigmatize some as bad, but if in what bank is called budget poker.
 
perrinperrua99

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I destine 15 dollars per month for poker. If I lose them, I do not deposit anything else, and if I earn money during the month, the next I do not. This year I made few deposits. I consider myself an amateur player, but I like the game.
 
rckstr2b

rckstr2b

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I destine 15 dollars per month for poker. If I lose them, I do not deposit anything else, and if I earn money during the month, the next I do not. This year I made few deposits. I consider myself an amateur player, but I like the game.



And that’s a great plan. You’re having fun, if you lose your $15, it may hurt emotionally, but it will make almost no difference to your financial health.
Great example of budget poker!!!!
And it sounds like you’re improving your game as well. When you get to the point where you’re not reloading for several months of active playing, and your account has been steadily/gradually increasing,then you could(if you wanted to) transition into bankroll management, since your track record has proven that you’ve developed your game enough to be winning a higher percentage than your losses.
Or you could keep having fun and taking shots at bigger games/tournaments, since if you lose you know you can add that $15 again and have fun rebuilding your roll.
 
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And that’s a great plan. You’re having fun, if you lose your $15, it may hurt emotionally, but it will make almost no difference to your financial health.
Great example of budget poker!!!!
And it sounds like you’re improving your game as well. When you get to the point where you’re not reloading for several months of active playing, and your account has been steadily/gradually increasing,then you could(if you wanted to) transition into bankroll management, since your track record has proven that you’ve developed your game enough to be winning a higher percentage than your losses.
Or you could keep having fun and taking shots at bigger games/tournaments, since if you lose you know you can add that $15 again and have fun rebuilding your roll.

I hope there are lots of people who believe this crap.... :wavey:
 
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If I start off at the bottom, a free roll table, I win $2.50 I will start to play the $.55 cent tournaments. until I win won, then keep playing them and free rolls until I get at least $ 10.00 then I would play the dollar games until I lost $5.00 and start over, or until I got up to $ 20.00 then try a $ 5.00 if I lost I would try a $1.00 for 2 then back to the .55 cent games. every good poker player will yo yo hist bank roll, it's just a fact. we can't win every time, but you have to find out where your zero point and protect it. every big growth you get set another zero point. if you climb to $1000.00 maybe set your zero point at $ 900.00 if you climb to $20,000.00 maybe set it at $15,000.00 at 15K that is your zero point. that is where you go back to playing very low beginner stakes until you build up enough to try another real money game. I hope this helps you under stand it. Peace and happy bank rolling
 
keokeokk

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I deposited three times more I regretted that I should have studied more I wanted to follow the easy path after having played fictitious cards, I thought I was getting along ... but I lost my 3 deposits and now I am studying more ... and who you know later when I adapt ... I deposit again and I make my bankroll correctly
 
playinggameswithu

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Obvious thread is obvious. You cannot win at poker without good bankroll management.

40-60 buyins for cash game
150-400 buyins for MTT *if you play maniac style you need the higher end
 
terryk

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Sorry,but you have to watch your money,or kiss it goodbye.I agree it`s `easier` to follow BRM when your winning,but if you don`t have a plan,you will bleed cash.:cool:
 
rckstr2b

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Just to clarify, because this thread is getting sidetracked(which I guess most threads do anyway), however, when use the term “winning player,” I’m not talking about if you win sometimes.

This definition is via pokerlistings site and it’s their/my definition:
A "winning" player is one who, over enough time and a sufficient number of hands for the data to be statistically reliable, takes more money off the table than he puts on it.

"Good" is trickier. You can be a good player without being a winning player. I know, that feels a little weird. It isn't.

If you are not a winning player by this definition or a similar one(to which I am not because my sample size isn’t big enough yet)
Then you could have a Billion dollars and if your game never improves enough to be classified as a winning players, the money will eventually run out(maybe not in your lifetime). Until you fix the leaks you’ll continue to leak money
 
tilan501

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Man, losing more than winning is normal, the difference is how much you win, when you win.
 
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Seems simple enough to me. Pick a length of time and evaluate how much you put in to the game and how much you have at the end. If for that length of time you have more than you put in you are winning. If you have less you are losing. The longer the period of time (more statistical data) the more accurate this will be. The point of bankroll management is to aid the better players in not becoming losing players due to poor management. But I totally agree with the original post. You can perfectly follow brm principals, but if you are not a winning player, you will simply watch your bankroll slowly dwindle away.
 
Peppinotom

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If I start off at the bottom, a free roll table, I win $2.50 I will start to play the $.55 cent tournaments. until I win won, then keep playing them and free rolls until I get at least $ 10.00 then I would play the dollar games until I lost $5.00 and start over, or until I got up to $ 20.00 then try a $ 5.00 if I lost I would try a $1.00 for 2 then back to the .55 cent games. every good poker player will yo yo hist bank roll, it's just a fact. we can't win every time, but you have to find out where your zero point and protect it. every big growth you get set another zero point. if you climb to $1000.00 maybe set your zero point at $ 900.00 if you climb to $20,000.00 maybe set it at $15,000.00 at 15K that is your zero point. that is where you go back to playing very low beginner stakes until you build up enough to try another real money game. I hope this helps you under stand it. Peace and happy bank rolling
and this explains it pretty exactly, GREAT! If you don't start from zero and have the opportunity to deposit, the deposit should be 1% of your income only. it doesn't help you when you are shivering at the table because ALL your money is in the game. So find a comfortable place for investing a little part of your money (1% of your deposited money would be fine for the long run, up to 10% if you want to be rich next month)
I prefer to have 100 times the buy in for a tournament before playing it constantly.
e.g. on one skin I grinded 32 $. When there's really no more freeroll to play, I can play there 0,10 and 0,20 SnG's, and 0,50 tournaments that are worth playing. I would not start playing 1$ tournaments right now, because 32 doesn't seem enough for me to get to know the players there. So maybe that explains, why losers need even more BRM :cool:
 
rckstr2b

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Just to clarify, because this thread is getting sidetracked(which I guess most threads do anyway), however, when use the term “winning player,” I’m not talking about if you win sometimes.

This definition is via pokerlistings site and it’s their/my definition:
A "winning" player is one who, over enough time and a sufficient number of hands for the data to be statistically reliable, takes more money off the table than he puts on it.

"Good" is trickier. You can be a good player without being a winning player. I know, that feels a little weird. It isn't.

If you are not a winning player by this definition or a similar one(to which I am not because my sample size isn’t big enough yet)
Then you could have a Billion dollars and if your game never improves enough to be classified as a winning players, the money will eventually run out(maybe not in your lifetime). Until you fix the leaks you’ll continue to leak money
 
Robochick

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matrix-glitch-o.gif

I don't know if you realize that you posted that twice, but somehow for me it was better the second time. :)
 
BuzzKillington

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Even a losing player needs proper BRM. You need to gain experience at the lowest price possible. Obviously this entails some form of BRM. You can't just throw your money away.
 
NoPlace4U

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Even a losing player needs proper BRM. You need to gain experience at the lowest price possible. Obviously this entails some form of BRM. You can't just throw your money away.

Thats true, you dont get any value with your $100 deposit if you go straight to 0.50/1 NL and bust out in 1 hour.
 
rckstr2b

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Thats true, you dont get any value with your $100 deposit if you go straight to 0.50/1 NL and bust out in 1 hour.



Correct, but that is still a budget, not a bankroll.
So, you deposited $100. Whether or not you budget that $100, into 50-$2 cash games or 1-$100 cash game, it makes no difference as far as a bankroll goes, because if you do not know how to consistently beat the level you are playing in, you’re basically deciding on how slow you want to lose your $100.

Now, I am a firm believer that if you want to become a winning player, no matter how much budget you are starting with, go start at the smallest games and study your ass off. As you start to win more consistently you can transition that into a bankroll; as now you’d be in the winning category.
 
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I was not in the reds from the very beginning. I do not catch a crane in the sky. I can not play on cache and be in profit. And I do not play on cache. I try to use tickets on shares and play freerolls. Therefore, I have a bankroll progress. Here is my tactic. First, think about your abilities soberly and then play.
 
Jamesuri

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Been seeing a lot of questions about bankroll management, and how much bankroll should you start out with if you’re a beginner, or even intermediate player.

I’m going to answer once a for all this difficult question:

There’s no such thing as bankroll management for losing players!!!!!!

If you are not a “winning” player, meaning you consistently don’t win more than you lose, no matter how much your starting bankroll is, it will only decrease over time if you don’t improve your game.
If you’re a losing player, and you’re having fun, who cares, have fun. Just understand that you don’t have a “poker bankroll”, what you have is a “Poker budget”

if you improve to becoming even a slightly winning player, now you can discuss based on your winning percentage, what a good Bankroll management system would be for your game.

Really hope this helps all the people confused by this.


P.s.
If you disagree with this, you might be a losing player..haha(seriously though)



Totally agree, i couldn't manage my BR, i was an atm. Now I stopped depositing, trying to improve my game by reading books and reading CC lol
 
cazual88

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4 years ago I tried several times to start playing poker. And I lost everything. Then I read a poker school. I learned about bankroll management and started to win money. Since that moment for 3 years I have won about 4 thousand dollars (from freerolls and microlimits)
 
rckstr2b

rckstr2b

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Even a losing player needs proper BRM. You need to gain experience at the lowest price possible. Obviously this entails some form of BRM. You can't just throw your money away.



Incorrect,
Losing players need a proper budget, not a bankroll.
Think of it in terms of a business.
If you own a “profitable” business, every month your bank account grows. Even though you’re spending money to build your business through advertising and growing the business, in the end, the money you spend on the business all comes out of the money you made from said business. It’s a self contained ecosystem(obviously this is a generalization since all businesses are different).
When this pretend business first started it is likely that they owners had not proven the business concept, so they started with what we’ll refer to as a budget, meaning that they started with an amount of money to open this business. They also know that it’s not “guaranteed” to bring in any money, so they lower their expenses and work to tighten up all of their business leaks. Let’s say they gave themselves 12 months of funds to make try to make this business profitable.
Even if they eventually are profitable, at this point they are not. All outgoing money is essentially a risk(budget).
Flash forward a year later and this business consistently brings in a health growth percentage.
Now all of their operating capital is leverage to make more money. In poker, this would be considered a bankroll. Before they knew how to use their money to make money, they were on a budget.

Every poker player starts out as a losing player, it’s nothing to be ashamed of. It a great motivator to learn the game better than your opponents. :)
I’m sure people will want to contest this as well and that’s fine, however, understand almost all of the people(possibly all)contesting this are not yet winning players, that should tell you something.
 
Serjo600

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I think every player knows why he plays, and it doesn't matter the bankroll or not, I know many players who have lost interest in the game for a number of reasons: hours of utilization, not compatible with the personal life, of course lost large amount, change of activity, to which I all this while you play, no matter what. You're a player, and if the interest is not lost for many years, then you need to find the reason in yourself that you poker.
 
Peppinotom

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Correct, but that is still a budget, not a bankroll.
So, you deposited $100. Whether or not you budget that $100, into 50-$2 cash games or 1-$100 cash game, it makes no difference as far as a bankroll goes, because if you do not know how to consistently beat the level you are playing in, you’re basically deciding on how slow you want to lose your $100.

Now, I am a firm believer that if you want to become a winning player, no matter how much budget you are starting with, go start at the smallest games and study your ass off. As you start to win more consistently you can transition that into a bankroll; as now you’d be in the winning category.
Exactly, just imagine the poker world as a new onlinegame. You start at level 1. The lowest buy in. The problem here, there is no end enemy to tell you when you've reached level 2. So you have to decide for yourself. Let's say, you started with only 10 Dollars and made 15 out of it at 0.10 Sng's. You could decide to take the 5 dollars to a higher level, but not the whole 15. Play maybe 0,20 or 0,50 SnG's and see, if you can win there. If you loose the 5$, get back to 0,10 to earn some more and try again next time ;)
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
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