Bankroll Management Question

Ok so I've been posting here for a while about my .01/.02 cash games and was wondering when I should move up stakes.

My bankroll started at 100$ and is now up to about 140$ after about 6k hands. I'm going to log atleast 10k hands before I move up limits but I was noticing the max buy-ins at the next few levels which made me ask a couple questions.

SInce I want to be properly rolled for .02/.05 (5NL) I should have a bankroll of 100$.

But I have learned I should always buy in for the max which, at stars, is 10$. So do I need to have 200$ to be properly rolled for this limit? Also the max buy-in at (.05/.10)10NL is the normal 10$ so if I do need 200$ for the 20 buyins at 5NL should I just skip it and start playing the 10NL?

Anyway just figured I'd ask and I also thought maybe I would kind of average the two ideas and just start playing it when I hit 150$

Also is there any value in forcing myself to play 10k hands at .01/.02 or if I do move up to 5NL at 150$ should I just make the transition as soon as I hit 150$

I think it's a matter of what bankroll you feel comfortable playing at, coupled with how good you're beating the stakes you're currently at. In your case, I would definitely grind out to $200 before moving up to 5nl, just so you have a comfortable cushion. But even if you're building your bankroll, don't move up until you feel comfortable you are beating the stakes you're current at by a good clip. There's no rush to move up.

I would do $200 (20 max buyins). I would set a stop loss 2-3 buyins before I would force a drop back to 02nl. Others have suggested adding another $5 (for example) each time so that even though you are dropping down 20-30$ you make back enough to still be going UP. Assuming you even have to try more than once.

One interesting note. At stars (only 2nl?) the max buyin at 05 and 10 is the same: $10. Perhaps if you feel confident you could do less than $200 at 05. Just be vigilent.

Good luck,
cAPS

Alright that's pretty much what I was planning on doing just to be thorough. I'm just starting to get anxious to move up and really just wanna be able to do it already haha. I'll probably grind it up all the way to 200$ to be properly rolled, or I might take a shot or two here and there along the way and if I feel confident about beating it I might stick around for another buy in or two.

Thanks for the input.

One question still though. If I do wait till I have 200$ to play 5NL when should I make the transition to 10NL?

Well... 02nl and 05nl are unusually deep at 250BB and 200BB for max buyin.

10nl and up 100BB for max buyin. (AFAIK, and barring special tables like 50bb etc)

Since this makes 05 and 10 the same max buyin it means you risk/win the same amount when you go all in. But some strategic play can be different depending on your stack size... set mining for example. But this depends on more than YOUR stack size, and the bet sizes matter too. So I think your style might have quite a bit to do with how well you do in the deep nickle tables or the normal stack dimes.

Anyway... I would look at 05nl as discount 10nl. Once you get the hang of it and make a few bucks you could play them interchangeably.

cAPS

What kind of gap is there between stakes?

Will I actually notice a higher caliber player when the max buy in is only upped 5$ between 2NL and 5NL?

What about between 5NL and 10NL where there is zero difference between the max buyins?

As I said before I'm just getting anxious to move up and I'm curious what I should be expecting.

IMHO the play quality is close to the same in 02, 05 and 10 nl. The max buyin is the same ($10) at the latter two.

Your biggest challenge might be adjusting your own head to the new play level... much more than quality of players.

I have never played those levels , I only played like 3k hands at 10nl before being disgusted with it as a "push n pray" game that the players didn't take seriously.

So - if you show a good winrate after 10k hands, the usual "bare minimum" guideline for moving up is 20 buyins. Don't follow my lead and go to 25nl with only 10 buyins ... you just have no wiggle room for a downswing (however, my "actual" bankroll for poker exceeded those 10 buyins).

For me, I decided to wait until 30 buyins to move to 50nl. Why? It's just the magic number for me to feel super comfortable moving up to those stakes.

You dont need 20 max buy ins, the rule is typically 20 buy ins on 100BB. However, if you are beating these stakes fairly easily that may not even be needed. If you are winning at a 2BB/100 then I would be more conservative but if you are winning at like 8BB/100 there is no real reason to even put in 10K hands at these stakes, unless you think you are just getting lucky.

Keep in mind if you take your shot and arent ready you can also move back down.

Wait, are you saying if I'm winning at 8 Big blinds per 100 hands I should be more liberal with my bankroll?

That just seems weird to me because at the .01/.02 over 6500 hands I ran at 38.52/100 hands according to HEM. 8BB/100 just seems really low at these stakes. That or maybe I'm a lot luckier than I give myself credit for.

Anyway I did wind up taking a shot at 5NL and I did pretty well. I ran at 32BB/100 over almost 1000 hands which I hope is sustainable at this limit but doubtful.

Since I was running pretty well at 5NL I also talked myself into playing a round of 10NL after watching the movie rounders haha

Anyway at 300 hands even at 10NL I have a ridiculously high win rate of 95.33BB/100 and even though I played a third of the number of hands at 10NL that I played at 5NL I won twice as much there haha.

Those are the numbers that really make me wonder about the 8BB/100. At no limit texas what is a regular win rate for the stakes I'm at and for stakes up to 50NL.

And Icemonkey9 what do you mean by your "Actual" bankroll.

The traditional "20 full buy-ins to move up" rule assumes that you will not make a re-deposit. It's a good rule because it protects you against variance. However, at the micros limits people are pretty bad, so your skill advantage is a bigger factor so you're more likely to win. So fudging it a little isn't a crime.

I started with $2NL. While I have played some $5NL, I moved $2NL straight to $10NL. And I had less than $100 when I did that.

I have no regrets, but it wasn't as suicidal as it sounds.

First off, I was bored at $2NL so I didn't give it my all. Moving up gave me some fear, so I didn't make those "Oh what the heck" calls anymore.
Second, I made a rule ans stuck to it. When I won $20 more at $2NL I could use that to play at any higher stake. If I lost $20 there, I'd force myself to grind at $2NL again until I made another $25. $5 would be retained as profit, and the remaining $20 could be used at the higher level of my choosing.
Third, I played a short stack strategy. I was buying in for small amounts, win $1-$3, then quit for another table. IE, buy in for $3, make $1.50, then leave and buy in at another table for $3. That definitely wasn't the most profitable way to play, bit it kept my maximum losses short.

Of these, I think the most important was my willingness to move back down a level quickly if I encountered losses. As it turned out, $10NL was my stablest period. (I'll attach an old profit graph from an [April?] backup I have of PokerTracker 2 here at work)

So my advice is, if you are comfortable playing at that level and you are willing to move back down if you lose, go ahead and set a loss-limit and take a stab at it.

If you are doing well at $2NL, I think you'll do well at $5NL. There isn't much difference in the micros. It's a little tougher at $25NL, but not a "leap" by any means.

Good luck.

well 8BB/100 is big bets, which is 2 big blinds, but thats not really relevant and you are using HEM so thats incorporated anyway I assume, I use PT so I dont know. My point is it seems you are killing the micros, so yes you can move up at a faster rate. The chances of you winning by being lucky is greatly diminished if you have a high win rate. As you move up the ranks(ie getting to the 50nl or 100nl jump) I would make sure to get a good amount of hands in before making the leap but at these stakes, they are so beatable that there is really less risk.

As for normal winrates, thats a tough topic because really anything above 0 is good enough and anyone can improve but I would say your winrate is very high(and probably a little higher than it will end up, if not great work).

I say that not to worry about what most people do, do what you are comfortable with. If you are playing well in your current stakes, and are able to move up slightly in stakes, do it. But if you are doing well, and remaining in your own range, stay there! You can make money at all stakes!

I think skipping levels is usually a bad idea.. But you can check the upper stakes sometimes for a while when you have a good day. It is not necesserrily a drastic movement, you can make a smooth transition.

Yea I think I ran pretty good today except for an all in preflop where I had kings and the other guy had Aces. Lost a buy in on that hand but overall for the day I was up a few dollars.

I think I'm gonna stay at 10NL unless I get beat down to 150 or lose some confidence in my play.

I would wait for 40 buy-ins, with a buy-in being 100bb's (5 dollars, aka a 200 dollar bankroll). However, if you think you can consistently beat the stakes, you can try to move up quicker with 20 buy-ins, but only if you are able to move down in stakes after a downswing.