Bankroll Management, Buy-in amount, and Big Lessons Learned the Hard way

#1 23rd August 2016, 7:09 AM

Hello fellow poker players!

Lets talk about bank roll management, buy-ins, and all kinds of things...

I usually play $1-3 sometimes $2-5 NLH and PLO at local poker rooms here in Texas. Really fun stuff

I must admit that I am not practicing proper BRM to any extent what so ever. I have learned the hard way a handful of times that this is just plain stupid.

I am going to deposit 49 USD into Americas Card Room and start grinding on the micro-stakes.

My game plan is 5% investments to cash games and Single table Sit & Gos/ 2% to Multi-Table Tournaments/ and .5% to MTTs with the option to Re-buy and/or Add-on.

The second part of the BRM plan is probably the most important... LEAVE THE FRIGGIN TABLE WHEN YOU'RE UP! Once you have doubled your buy-in you must leave the cash table.

I must admit that this isn't my first attempt. My issue is that I try to rush things and move up to higher stakes too quickly and feeling like S**T when I take a bad beat or two with too much money than I was supposed to be investing in the first place.

Thats enough of that...

Let's talk about buy-ins a little more.

Earlier I was talking about playing $1-3/$2-5 NLH and PLO at local poker rooms in Texas. These buy-ins can range from 100 USD all the way up to 1000 USD on average. So that would mean I need a minimum of 2000 USD in my bankroll to be able to buy in for $100.

Now just because the minimum buy-in to a game is $100... Does that mean we should buy in for that much? This is something that I have been thinking about lately. Maybe it would be best to look at the stacks and buy in for whatever the average stack is. The average stack is usually $200-$300 American. This means that maybe I shouldn't be back on those tables until I have built my bankroll up to 4-6 grand. This is unfortunate but I will be very happy when I can play again.

Online it gets even trickier...
The max you can buy in for .01/.02 NLH is $2 so the start up bankroll of $49 is the perfect size for that. Now here is where things get a bit awkward...

You can buy in to .02/.05 NLH for a minimum of $2. Should we do this? I think it handicaps you in a way. I think other players are more likely to call your bluffs if you are short stacked because you are not that threatening.

[[[ If we ever play each other.. Just remember, I don't bluff ever. ]]]

So, this time around I'm going to use this as a guideline for when I am able to move into new stakes. I cant wait to be properly rolled for the local poker rooms. Let me know what you think about the BRM game plan. Also, please share your ideas on buy-in amounts. Has anyone else tried actual real and proper BRM at low stakes as well?

#2 23rd August 2016, 9:36 PM

Why would you leave the table when you're up?

Shouldn't you leave the table when you can no longer play optimally? Or when you feel you no longer have an edge at the table?

As far as short buying into live cash games (and online)...just don't. Why would you want to sit down at a table with ~34 BBs in the by buying $100 into a $1-$3 game? It limits a lot of your preflop options, especially against an active table. Not to mention, you lose a ton of value with you have huge monster hands.

Yeah, great job getting your money in with AA vs KK and winning ~34 BBs off your opponent, but you also missed out on another 66 BBs you could've taken off them as well if you had bought in for a full 100 BBs. So, even if you won, you lost more.

#3 24th August 2016, 7:09 AM

There are some serious flaws in your logic. UNLESS! you're just trying to make a certain amount of money. If your goal is to make a certain amount and stop playing then by all means this is fine.

If you're trying to improve and learn to make +ev decisions, this is a flawed way of approaching the game. You won't every be able to handle bad beats, or coolers in a logical way.

So you need to define your goals for playing.

A/w, gl m'friend.

#4 24th August 2016, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by dackler

[[[ If we ever play each other.. Just remember, I don't bluff ever. ]]]

I recommend you to play Sit & Go , 0,25 $ / 0,50 buy in. I think you are a tight player and good in patience.
As my experience, playing in micro stakes with minimum buy-in it is hard to play and do bluff. Because big stakes always raise from pre-flop,flop,turn,river until you decided to fold. The big stakes always firing their chips mostly if they holding Ace. If you really want to play at micro stakes, i suggest you to chose 6 max players, avoid to play in full ring table ( 9 players). A lot of players would play bingo or over bet. And the worst case is even AA or KK can busted by bad beat. ,

And one thing the most important,If you not brave enough just do not bluff russian players , because they can firing you back.

#5 24th August 2016, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by ohshootmybad

Why would you leave the table when you're up?

Shouldn't you leave the table when you can no longer play optimally? Or when you feel you no longer have an edge at the table?

As far as short buying into live cash games (and online)...just don't. Why would you want to sit down at a table with ~34 BBs in the by buying $100 into a $1-$3 game? It limits a lot of your preflop options, especially against an active table. Not to mention, you lose a ton of value with you have huge monster hands.

Yeah, great job getting your money in with AA vs KK and winning ~34 BBs off your opponent, but you also missed out on another 66 BBs you could've taken off them as well if you had bought in for a full 100 BBs. So, even if you won, you lost more.

Agreed.

This is why I said I think you should buy in for whatever the average stack is.

#6 24th August 2016, 7:26 PM

Originally Posted by JAQK_T

There are some serious flaws in your logic. UNLESS! you're just trying to make a certain amount of money. If your goal is to make a certain amount and stop playing then by all means this is fine.

If you're trying to improve and learn to make +ev decisions, this is a flawed way of approaching the game. You won't every be able to handle bad beats, or coolers in a logical way.

So you need to define your goals for playing.

A/w, gl m'friend.

Hello friend,

My goal is to try and build up my bankroll to $10,000 within a year. So that is exactly my goal!

#7 24th August 2016, 7:29 PM

Originally Posted by KERAPUTIH

I recommend you to play Sit & Go , 0,25 $ / 0,50 buy in. I think you are a tight player and good in patience.
As my experience, playing in micro stakes with minimum buy-in it is hard to play and do bluff. Because big stakes always raise from pre-flop,flop,turn,river until you decided to fold. The big stakes always firing their chips mostly if they holding Ace. If you really want to play at micro stakes, i suggest you to chose 6 max players, avoid to play in full ring table ( 9 players). A lot of players would play bingo or over bet. And the worst case is even AA or KK can busted by bad beat. ,

And one thing the most important,If you not brave enough just do not bluff russian players , because they can firing you back.

Hello,

I love sit and gos! I play quite well in them usually. I have been making small profits in micro stakes cash games. I havent got the chance to play sit and go yet with my new baby bank roll. Ill make a post about this soon.

#8 24th August 2016, 7:37 PM

Alright guys!

I have been grinding the free rolls lately. I just cashed in my second one for the week! Im on a roll. I got 2nd place on full flush poker's $100 free roll. I cashed $16. So, Ive been on the penny games playing micro stakes cash.

My baby bankroll is up a couple dollars since! I am going to keep playing within my limits and play carefully so I can eventually reach my goal!

#9 24th August 2016, 7:55 PM

IMHO, always buy-in for the max. and always practice good BRM. There's nothing worse than building up a huge bankroll, getting unlucky, losing it all, then having to go back to scratch (been there, done that). Big picture "slow and steady" allows you to "go for broke" with individual hands when the situation calls for it, since you're never actually going broke.

BTW, I love PLO. Good luck!

#10 24th August 2016, 8:05 PM

"Once you have doubled your buy-in you must leave the cash table"...why?...I can never do that, can you?...when that happens, I feel lucky, so I keep playing

#11 24th August 2016, 8:06 PM

Originally Posted by dackler

Alright guys!

I have been grinding the free rolls lately. I just cashed in my second one for the week! Im on a roll. I got 2nd place on full flush poker's $100 free roll. I cashed $16. So, Ive been on the penny games playing micro stakes cash.

My baby bankroll is up a couple dollars since! I am going to keep playing within my limits and play carefully so I can eventually reach my goal!

GL dude, hope you manage it well! looking forward to hear news about your BRM

#12 24th August 2016, 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by dackler

Hello,

I love sit and gos! I play quite well in them usually. I have been making small profits in micro stakes cash games. I havent got the chance to play sit and go yet with my new baby bank roll. Ill make a post about this soon.

SNG Tournaments are the most exciting ones and are the most appropriate for aggressive players like me. Also it's strategy isn't a hard one

#13 24th August 2016, 8:14 PM

I dnt recommend MTTs with rebuy. I dnt like it especially micro cuz people are playing on almost every card

#14 24th August 2016, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by ribaric

I dnt recommend MTTs with rebuy. I dnt like it especially micro cuz people are playing on almost every card

Rebuy MTTs are fine, even with players playing every hand.

Just tighten up your range a bit and value bet your big hands.

#15 3rd September 2016, 8:37 AM

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delayed response.

Im sorry to say that I broke my rules and went beyond my limits and played OMAHA which is even worse for variance!

Sorry to let you guys down so soon.

I got caught up in some omaha and quadrupled my bank roll really fast.

Unfortunately, I was riding the rush too much and lost it quite fast as well.

It was fun while it lasted.

However, I think following these rules works! I'll give it another go around soon. I'll update after I either make a deposit or hopefully cash in another free roll!

I wish there were more people on full flush. They have the best free rolls IMO but they dont have enough people to play cash with.

See you guys out on the virtual tables.

#16 3rd September 2016, 9:05 AM

Ok.

I just made a deposit onto ACR.

I am starting out with a huge whopping $10 bankroll!!!

#17 3rd September 2016, 9:07 AM

Originally Posted by MattRyder

IMHO, always buy-in for the max. and always practice good BRM. There's nothing worse than building up a huge bankroll, getting unlucky, losing it all, then having to go back to scratch (been there, done that). Big picture "slow and steady" allows you to "go for broke" with individual hands when the situation calls for it, since you're never actually going broke.

BTW, I love PLO. Good luck!

Right... Patience is the game. Its a marathon that I want to stretch out for months! I wanna build this bad boy into a monster!

#18 3rd September 2016, 9:09 AM

Originally Posted by chelarescualinmihai

"Once you have doubled your buy-in you must leave the cash table"...why?...I can never do that, can you?...when that happens, I feel lucky, so I keep playing

I usually don't do this. That is why I have included into my set of rules that I must follow for success. I sit down too long and end up broke because eventually everyones luck runs through a bit of a dry spell.

#19 3rd September 2016, 9:11 AM

Originally Posted by chelarescualinmihai

SNG Tournaments are the most exciting ones and are the most appropriate for aggressive players like me. Also it's strategy isn't a hard one

Same!

Love them. Especially for building up this baby. I need to nurture it into a huge bankroll and I think the best bang for my buck has gotta be sNgS!

#20 3rd September 2016, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by ribaric

I dnt recommend MTTs with rebuy. I dnt like it especially micro cuz people are playing on almost every card

I agree with this. However, tournaments are where you can score huge cashes. I know its risky business and not following my rules to a TEE per say but I think a dollar is just about as low as the buy in gets on ACR. Im gonna try to do something along these lines... Play .01/.02NL until I make about a dollar then buy into the $1 MTTs. I think this will minimize my risk of investment a bit.

#21 3rd September 2016, 9:17 AM

Originally Posted by ohshootmybad

Rebuy MTTs are fine, even with players playing every hand.

Just tighten up your range a bit and value bet your big hands.

I agree. This is obviously how you should treat that scenario. However, there is inevitable variance in the cards that you just cannot avoid eventually in tournament scenarios. Gotta protect the BR bruh. Only tiny investments will be made for these tourneys to build it up into a monster!