Bankroll Management (BRM) What's the point really?

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megabrobro

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Hi guys, I've been playing poker online for various stakes since 1999. I've basically played at every poker client in existence (reputable UK based ones at least).

I've just jumped back into it following a few years away. This time I decided to take the skills I already have but lose all my bad habits (ie. I had zero BRM before, and in fact would just risk my entire bankroll after a few loses in a row, i purely was playing for fun mainly with just a hope of winning big).

Now, I decide to read up on BRM and to try to apply it, and therefore hopefully make a gradual but steady profit month-by-month.

For now, Im playing pokerstars Fifty50 (also v small MTT and some basic 9 seaters). I read around on here and other places and from what I gather the standard advice is to have 100 Buy Ins as my bankroll. So if I have $200 max to play with I should stick to purely $2 tables.

But what baffles me about this method is why so many buy-ins? I mean this seems like people are saying you could gradually lose all the way down from $200 to under $5 but then somehow magically becoz you had enough BRM to manage it you will somehow still have a better chance to profit overall?

Fifty50 of course means you have approx 50% chance of finishing in top 5. However the payout is often less than double Buyin (but sometimes is 3x buyin).

I've been playing a week or so and can't see the point in have 100x BRM. I honestly feel 10 is enough and if I can;;t profit from it with 10 buy-ins as backup then I might aswell forget it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks for reading
 
Luvepoker

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Bankroll management is important if the money was worthwhile to you and you could not reload if you went broke. If you could reload again and it would not hurt you financially it is not so important.

It also depends on the type of game you are playing. 100 buy in is the standard but not locked in stone. If you were only playing games that had 1500+ players every time 100 buy ins may not be enough. On the flip side playing 50/50 100 buy ins is probably way excessive. I tried finding for you a chart "I Believe from Danial Negreanu" had made on proper size bank roll management for the different types of games but was unsuccessful. I will look again when i get home tonight and get it to you if i find it.

Just so you know bankroll management is not about "gradually lose all the way down from $200 to under $5 but then somehow magically becoz you had enough BRM to manage it you will somehow still have a better chance to profit overall" as you said. Its about not going broke but making it less likely you will go broke. If you are playing $2.00 games with a $200.00 bankroll and see it drop to $125.00 the idea would be you should drop down a level to say $1.00 games so you would be properly rolled for the games you are playing. If you are winning and get to $280.00 you would not be properly bankrolled for playing $3.00 game but you could justify trying say 10 of them and see what happens and if you lose you would go back to the $2.00 games.
 
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megabrobro

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ken nielson said:
Bankroll management is important if the money was worthwhile to you and you could not reload if you went broke. If you could reload again and it would not hurt you financially it is not so important.

It also depends on the type of game you are playing. 100 buy in is the standard but not locked in stone. If you were only playing games that had 1500+ players every time 100 buy ins may not be enough. On the flip side playing 50/50 100 buy ins is probably way excessive. I tried finding for you a chart "I Believe from Danial Negreanu" had made on proper size bank roll management for the different types of games but was unsuccessful. I will look again when i get home tonight and get it to you if i find it.

Just so you know bankroll management is not about "gradually lose all the way down from $200 to under $5 but then somehow magically becoz you had enough BRM to manage it you will somehow still have a better chance to profit overall" as you said. Its about not going broke but making it less likely you will go broke. If you are playing $2.00 games with a $200.00 bankroll and see it drop to $125.00 the idea would be you should drop down a level to say $1.00 games so you would be properly rolled for the games you are playing. If you are winning and get to $280.00 you would not be properly bankrolled for playing $3.00 game but you could justify trying say 10 of them and see what happens and if you lose you would go back to the $2.00 games.
Click to expand...


Thanks very much for your comments here. I think i understand the purpose of the BRM graphs etc now. Thanks mate
 
HypnoT0AD

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Yep, BRM is basically a guideline, you can have less than 100 buyins but it's more risky. Poker is all about risk/reward, so I consider BRM all part of the game.

As said different games need different amounts, if you really want to see swings give some PLO a go! ;)
 
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I think BRM is good...I just need to learn it to apply it
 
hugh blair

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:eek:10 is not enough busted $1000 real quick this month playing 100d spin n gos chasing million dollar pipedream hands like this for example:eek:
flop set queens nuts all chips go in lose on river to flush ect ect all day long similar story good luck.:top:
 
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megabrobro

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hugh blair said:
:eek:10 is not enough busted $1000 real quick this month playing 100d spin n gos chasing million dollar pipedream hands like this for example:eek:
flop set queens nuts all chips go in lose on river to flush ect ect all day long similar story good luck.:top:
Click to expand...

Unlucky man, I've had lots of bad beats too (won a few aswell tbh haha) but on Fifty50 you are supposedly gonna finish in the pay around 50%.

I've just switched to Sky Poker with £100 and Im playing £5.50 DoN now, I guess it maybe isnt enough but it gives me 20 BuyIns as a buffer so its better than just going for £50 tables hahah :D

thanks for the comments guys
 
alienat3d

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@megabrobro, well, i prefer to start answering your question with my favorite poker quote said by Chris "Jesus" Fergusson: "Success in poker based on 90% of luck and 10% of skills if you take one day and on 90% of skills and 10% of luck if you take one year." Some people could hate him for the Black Friday and partly they're right about it, but this quote is so damn true. Exactly because of that characteristic of poker, that on a short distance luck takes often a lead role, we can't just hoping that fortune will smile to us exactly at the time we try out higher limits, most likely not and it turns to disaster and bankruptcy. That's the first point, why we need that buffer of buy-ins to make sure we can survive even long downswings without depositing more and more. Usually players, who take their poker career seriously are playing poker for earning money, not loosing money on a long run. So new deposits are kind of no-no for them. The only exception is when poker rooms coming to you with some re-load bonus offers.

Another problem is, when you jump on higher stakes without been prepared (beating lower limits, gained some experience with playing many hands on lower limits, working on your game to increase your skills, to being able to beat also regulars, not only fish and donkeys, who are not really know what they are doing.), you are basically become a fish, as on higher limits way much more solid regulars, who do know what they are doing, who are aware about their position, know many tricks and know some GTO and ICM concepts. If you are not better than them, then you really need luck to win some, but this luck will end sooner or later and you gonna loose it all without BRM and have to back to 0 and freerolls. This is not what you want to experience, believe me. That's why it's so important being sure, that your game good enough for that level you play at and in addition you have enough buffer, in case you have downswing for weeks and loose many tournaments one after another. It happens, no matter how good you are, it's hard, but it's part of the game.


p.s. On other hand, if you are hobby player, who just see a poker, as any other gambling game and don't worry about making few deposits over and over again, then it's fine, you're paying for your fun, but still i would recommend another game, where luck influence the results way more, than in poker, like roulette or slots or even black jack. As in poker regs will take your money sooner or later if you don't improve your game. It's hard to be a winning player at poker. It needs a lot of work to put into, also beside playing itself.


p.p.s. Btw, i think ken nielson mentioned it pretty well with "100 buy in is the standard but not locked in stone". Exactly this! Planning BRM should be very personal thing, based on your own character. We are all different and some of us are ready to take more risks, but for the others it's more important to feel them safe. That's why some players have more conservative BRM and others have more aggressive, it's up to you, what you going to do with your time and your money! Decide for yourself! And by the way, 100 buy-ins or 1% of bankroll is standard, but for MTT, for SNG it's something between 3-5%, as you get into the money way more often there.
 
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megabrobro

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alienat3d said:
@megabrobro, well, i prefer to start answering your question with my favorite poker quote said by Chris "Jesus" Fergusson: "Success in poker based on 90% of luck and 10% of skills if you take one day and on 90% of skills and 10% of luck if you take one year." Some people could hate him for the Black Friday and partly they're right about it, but this quote is so damn true. Exactly because of that characteristic of poker, that on a short distance luck takes often a lead role, we can't just hoping that fortune will smile to us exactly at the time we try out higher limits, most likely not and it turns to disaster and bankruptcy. That's the first point, why we need that buffer of buy-ins to make sure we can survive even long downswings without depositing more and more. Usually players, who take their poker career seriously are playing poker for earning money, not loosing money on a long run. So new deposits are kind of no-no for them. The only exception is when poker rooms coming to you with some re-load bonus offers.

Another problem is, when you jump on higher stakes without been prepared (beating lower limits, gained some experience with playing many hands on lower limits, working on your game to increase your skills, to being able to beat also regulars, not only fish and donkeys, who are not really know what they are doing.), you are basically become a fish, as on higher limits way much more solid regulars, who do know what they are doing, who are aware about their position, know many tricks and know some GTO and ICM concepts. If you are not better than them, then you really need luck to win some, but this luck will end sooner or later and you gonna loose it all without BRM and have to back to 0 and freerolls. This is not what you want to experience, believe me. That's why it's so important being sure, that your game good enough for that level you play at and in addition you have enough buffer, in case you have downswing for weeks and loose many tournaments one after another. It happens, no matter how good you are, it's hard, but it's part of the game.


p.s. On other hand, if you are hobby player, who just see a poker, as any other gambling game and don't worry about making few deposits over and over again, then it's fine, you're paying for your fun, but still i would recommend another game, where luck influence the results way more, than in poker, like roulette or slots or even black jack. As in poker regs will take your money sooner or later if you don't improve your game. It's hard to be a winning player at poker. It needs a lot of work to put into, also beside playing itself.


p.p.s. Btw, i think ken nielson mentioned it pretty well with "100 buy in is the standard but not locked in stone". Exactly this! Planning BRM should be very personal thing, based on your own character. We are all different and some of us are ready to take more risks, but for the others it's more important to feel them safe. That's why some players have more conservative BRM and others have more aggressive, it's up to you, what you going to do with your time and your money! Decide for yourself! And by the way, 100 buy-ins or 1% of bankroll is standard, but for MTT, for SNG it's something between 3-5%, as you get into the money way more often there.
Click to expand...


That quote is so true man. And everything else you say about it being personal how to manage your own BRM.

I realise what I am about to say will be highly controversial and probably against almost all known good advice BUT, I have been thinking a lot about it, and I'm kinda leaning towards starting at 1% of my bankroll, AND DOUBLING STAKE every time I lose (up to a reasonable limit of course. Has anyone every tried this, as I tend to go at most 3 games losing streak on DoN.


Just ideas bouncing straight out me head lol!

(EDIT: done this on blackjack a few times with £1000. First time I did it I made nearly £5000 in one night. Then I lost £1000 several times over before giving up
 
bc2017

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Bankroll management is important and as others are saying, if your bankroll drops, you may have to change the stakes of the games you play to reflect it. In my opinion, if you are playing Fifty50, I don't think you need as many as 100 buy ins, maybe 30 or 50. If you were playing MTTs which have a much higher variance, I would suggest 100 buy ins in that case.
 
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