Bad call or not?

U

UncleSam86

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Hi all! I just busted out of Sunday Storm and I'm disgusted beyond belief since I played really well until this hand and I was really in the zone. To find some comfort, I decided to make my first post here. This is how the hand went:

pokerstars Hand #191404244505: Tournament #2406590520, $9.80+$1.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (300/600) - 2018/09/23 16:10:14 ET
Table '2406590520 1014' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: menacerec (40419 in chips)
Seat 2: SancleUm (30380 in chips)
Seat 3: BilKolins (48718 in chips)
Seat 4: GMR2007 (55578 in chips)
Seat 5: HABIBIYANOUR (7644 in chips)
Seat 6: zoeml21 (8270 in chips)
Seat 7: Xaka85 (35785 in chips)
Seat 8: don3889 (40816 in chips)
Seat 9: Mulatin181 (8491 in chips)
menacerec: posts the ante 60
SancleUm: posts the ante 60
BilKolins: posts the ante 60
GMR2007: posts the ante 60
HABIBIYANOUR: posts the ante 60
zoeml21: posts the ante 60
Xaka85: posts the ante 60
don3889: posts the ante 60
Mulatin181: posts the ante 60
HABIBIYANOUR: posts small blind 300
zoeml21: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SancleUm [Kd Kc]
Xaka85: folds
don3889: folds
Mulatin181: folds
menacerec: folds
SancleUm: raises 732 to 1332
BilKolins: calls 1332
GMR2007: folds
HABIBIYANOUR: folds
zoeml21: calls 732
*** FLOP *** [Jh Ac 5d]
zoeml21: checks
SancleUm: bets 2418
BilKolins: calls 2418
zoeml21: folds
*** TURN *** [Jh Ac 5d] [9c]
SancleUm: checks
BilKolins: bets 3870
SancleUm: calls 3870
*** RIVER *** [Jh Ac 5d 9c] [6c]
SancleUm: bets 5000
BilKolins: raises 36038 to 41038 and is all-in
SancleUm: calls 17700 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (18338) returned to BilKolins
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BilKolins: shows [4c 5c] (a flush, Ace high)
SancleUm: shows [Kd Kc] (a pair of Kings)
BilKolins collected 62812 from pot
SancleUm finished the tournament in 10849th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 62812 | Rake 0
Board [Jh Ac 5d 9c 6c]
Seat 1: menacerec folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: SancleUm showed [Kd Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: BilKolins showed [4c 5c] and won (62812) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 4: GMR2007 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: HABIBIYANOUR (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: zoeml21 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Xaka85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: don3889 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Mulatin181 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I tanked a really long time before making the call, and my thought process that made me make the call was that shove is a really polarised move and I had the Kc blocker for the flush. I wasn't too worried about the ace since my read was that any larger aces he would have 3-betted preflop and he probably would have not shoved with an ace-rag.


In retrospective I played the hand like a fish; I should have made a larger bet on the flop and also betted the turn to drive away all the possible flush draws. I would love to hear your thoughts on this hand, so please, go ahead and tell me what you think :)



 
bstyles85

bstyles85

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This is a huge wall of text for me. I apologize if I am not reading this clearly. Please, if anyone wants to re-correct me, feel feel free.


Your preflop bet is awful. You should have raised the 732 bet to at least 1800.

Your flop bet is fine for the most part.

Turn is a fold though.

I can not stress this enough: Please, learn how to bet. Preflop raising is a very important aspect of poker.

EDIT: I wish others would show stopping the "summary". Worrying about what happened in the end will only make you stress even more and make others more biased to the play you made. There is no point in showing the final outcome.


 
Last edited:
Joe

Joe

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If it was me, I'm opening 2.5x preflop but after my c bet is called on the flop I'm reluctantly check-folding to significant aggression, too many hands are already ahead and I'm drawing to two outs for the not-nuts..

It's somewhat unfortunate that villain hits the flush but without reliable info saying otherwise, we're often losing to something else when not to the flush..
 
Whodahustla

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My take

I have a saying about pair hands. It goes, “Pair hands are like women, they look good but you can’t trust them.” You gotta play them carefully. AA’s are different, I shove preflop with those but when comes to KK If I can’t flop, turn or river a set and I get raised anywhere in between....I fold. When he made that massive bet that was a sign but you were already committed because of how much you had on the table by the turn.....I would just play all pairs carefully except for AA. Basically the same way he played 4c5c was how you should have played KK. Good Luck!
 
Psyanide14

Psyanide14

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After the A hit the flop and he called your c bet, I would have been wary of an A. He ended up not having one but I might have fired another bullet on the turn and if he called or raised I would have let it go.

As others have said, you should have raised more preflop and that might have gotten him to fold his 45s.
 
hugh blair

hugh blair

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3 people to the flop in raised pot if am on form and I have kings and ace hits I just check fold or check call small bet on river.
No need to get knocked out there:eek:
folded kk tonight in this game preflop knowing opponent tightest on table woke up with aces his first preflop jam in hours would have busted here instead went on to win $590.
He was 3x betting AK QQ and KK preflop:hahaha:
June week 2
 
Last edited:
U

UncleSam86

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Thanks for the feedback! First I would like to apologize. I realised I should have posted this under "Tournament hand analysis", but when I tried to post it there, the post got denied for some reason.

I included the villains stats (VP 50, PR 38, 3B 25, AF 3) on that post, and even though the sample size was only 8 hand, I concluded that he was calling my pre-flop raise with a very wide range, which played an important part for leaning towards the call. That range contains so much some weird Jx/9x hands I thought the only way he could win the pot was a shove on the river.

The 2.22x pre-flop bet is standard IMO, especially from the HJ. These are personal preferences, some like 2.5x and others 3x, but from my experience 2.22x does the trick of stealing the blinds/weeding out the field just as fine as a larger bet. From the EP I would open with a bigger bet though, 2.5x-3x, depending on how deep stack I'm holding and how active the the other players on the table are calling pre-flop/3-betting.

How do you usually approach the flop when holding KK and an ace appears on the board and two players have called your pre-flop raise? The more I think about it, a larger bet would have been better to give more information where I stand in the hand. The ace is definitely on pre-flop raisers range and combined with a larger c-bet, works as a scare card. I guess I was just loving my cowboys too much and just trying to extract some value :D

Turn and river were horribly played by me. I recently started writing down "DONT'S in poker tournaments" and this if definitely going to be there :)
 
bstyles85

bstyles85

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UncleSam86 said:
How do you usually approach the flop when holding KK and an ace appears on the board and two players have called your pre-flop raise?
Click to expand...

Raise/3bet preflop. Check flop and re-evalutate from there. This isn't rocket science.


EDIT: Those HUDs are making you a worse player. Stop using them.
 
Gamebreakr25

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UncleSam86 said:
Hi all! I just busted out of Sunday Storm and I'm disgusted beyond belief since I played really well until this hand and I was really in the zone. To find some comfort, I decided to make my first post here. This is how the hand went:

PokerStars Hand #191404244505: Tournament #2406590520, $9.80+$1.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (300/600) - 2018/09/23 16:10:14 ET
Table '2406590520 1014' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: menacerec (40419 in chips)
Seat 2: SancleUm (30380 in chips)
Seat 3: BilKolins (48718 in chips)
Seat 4: GMR2007 (55578 in chips)
Seat 5: HABIBIYANOUR (7644 in chips)
Seat 6: zoeml21 (8270 in chips)
Seat 7: Xaka85 (35785 in chips)
Seat 8: don3889 (40816 in chips)
Seat 9: Mulatin181 (8491 in chips)
menacerec: posts the ante 60
SancleUm: posts the ante 60
BilKolins: posts the ante 60
GMR2007: posts the ante 60
HABIBIYANOUR: posts the ante 60
zoeml21: posts the ante 60
Xaka85: posts the ante 60
don3889: posts the ante 60
Mulatin181: posts the ante 60
HABIBIYANOUR: posts small blind 300
zoeml21: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SancleUm [Kd Kc]
Xaka85: folds
don3889: folds
Mulatin181: folds
menacerec: folds
SancleUm: raises 732 to 1332
BilKolins: calls 1332
GMR2007: folds
HABIBIYANOUR: folds
zoeml21: calls 732
*** FLOP *** [Jh Ac 5d]
zoeml21: checks
SancleUm: bets 2418
BilKolins: calls 2418
zoeml21: folds
*** TURN *** [Jh Ac 5d] 9♣
SancleUm: checks
BilKolins: bets 3870
SancleUm: calls 3870
*** RIVER *** [Jh Ac 5d 9c] 6♣
SancleUm: bets 5000
BilKolins: raises 36038 to 41038 and is all-in
SancleUm: calls 17700 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (18338) returned to BilKolins
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BilKolins: shows [4c 5c] (a flush, Ace high)
SancleUm: shows [Kd Kc] (a pair of Kings)
BilKolins collected 62812 from pot
SancleUm finished the tournament in 10849th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 62812 | Rake 0
Board [Jh Ac 5d 9c 6c]
Seat 1: menacerec folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: SancleUm showed [Kd Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: BilKolins showed [4c 5c] and won (62812) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 4: GMR2007 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: HABIBIYANOUR (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: zoeml21 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Xaka85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: don3889 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Mulatin181 folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I tanked a really long time before making the call, and my thought process that made me make the call was that shove is a really polarised move and I had the Kc blocker for the flush. I wasn't too worried about the ace since my read was that any larger aces he would have 3-betted preflop and he probably would have not shoved with an ace-rag.


In retrospective I played the hand like a fish; I should have made a larger bet on the flop and also betted the turn to drive away all the possible flush draws. I would love to hear your thoughts on this hand, so please, go ahead and tell me what you think :)
Click to expand...
Hello. One problem I see with the way this hand played out is ... Imo you should have raised to at least 2000-2500 preflop AND bet again on Flop to not only continuation bet, but to charge his draws. The cheap action allowed him to hit his flush without much risk. If you got reraised on the flop, then you could get a better grasp on what kind of holding he has. If he would have reraised, you would know that he most likely held Ax etc. I hope this helps, and take care :cool:
 
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