Bad beat or bad play on my part

kmixer

kmixer

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.10+.02 buy in NLHE

Blinds are 20/40. I raise 3xbb from UTG with KK (chip stack 2100) . SB calls ( chip stack 3735). Flop comes 567 rainbow I go all in, he calls for about half his stack and shows A5. Of course the 5 hits the river.

I know this guy is calling light pre flop and is playing bad ragggy Aces

So did I F this up or just hit a bad beat?

I know the buy in makes this thread a little harder to discuss but this is the buy in I am playing at AP as part of an experiment I am running on myself.
 
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DaveGogel

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It is ofcourse a bad call on his part and it seems like people who play that way always get the 2 outter they need but my only question is why the all in? I mean I get not wanting to be sucked out on but with the blinds so low against a bigger stack that seems like too much to risk just to get the pot with so little action preflop.
 
thunder1276

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yeah there is just a bad beat. granted you should have not gone all in there but he also shouldnt have called. this isnt as bad a beat as i think you think it is though. he has 5 outs to beat you and two cards to come. he is going to win 1 out of every 5 times
 
kmixer

kmixer

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You are right that the blinds were low and my M didn't justify the all in but I figured I had him crushed and didn't want to lose to a straight if he was on the draw. I think a pot size pot would have been enough to see where I am. In this case though I am thinking he is gonna call pot and then call pot or all in on the river anyway.
 
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bwrobbel

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I don't think the all-in was all the bad of a move. You did have him crushed, so there was absolutely no problem with the way you played it. He just was playing like a donk. Think no more about it...he just got lucky.
 
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Piranha 131

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That was a bad beat and I agree with the all-in. Thats just a bad player getting lucky.
 
kmixer

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Thanks for the confirmation guys. I am not sure why he thought bottom pair was good. Or he just didn't care or know any better. Maybe a combination of all of these things.
 
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mig2169

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Same crap that happens every day at fulltilt, sorry man gl.
 
D_russo88

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You played it fine. Its the idiot who went all in with a pair of fives. It was just a really bad beat.
 
Poker Orifice

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So we're shoving ~ 9x Pot on the flop? 'Typically' what worse hands would we (could we) expect to call there... &.... what better hands do we figure we're getting to fold?
Playing against extremely loose calling fish... sure we need to make adjustments BUT at the same time we still need to get value out of our monsters.
Why not lead out for 3/4pot - to POT sized bet on the flop... re-evaluate on the turn, if it's a brick, fire out another 2/3-3/4 pot bet. (what hands are we afraid of by shoving instead of just putting out a typical value bet.... 88 < ?,.... I doubt you'll ever get a fold there... so why not just play each street instead of the Huge Overshove on the flop? (unless of course you're getting called by fish w A5 or other worse hands, lol)
 
Four Dogs

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The object is to try to get him to make the biggest mistake possible, so if you think He'll call ai with any pair or draw then ai is the correct play. The question is, did you really know that for sure or were you just playing scared. It doesn't look to me like you had enough information to make any assumptions about the nature of his hand so IMO, the ai bet was way too much. Normally the only hands that will call you are the ones you don't want to. My standard play is 1/2-3/4 pot bet made hand or not. Sure you might get drawn out on or even bluffed out but that's just the way things go, and as you can see, shoving all-in is no protection from bad beats. All it does is make your opponents hand easier to play. Save the shoves for later in the tourney. And don't be results oriented. Of course it was a bad beat.
 
kmixer

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Thanks you two. Very good advice that I will keep in mind for future games.

So we're shoving ~ 9x Pot on the flop? 'Typically' what worse hands would we (could we) expect to call there... &.... what better hands do we figure we're getting to fold?
Playing against extremely loose calling fish... sure we need to make adjustments BUT at the same time we still need to get value out of our monsters.
Why not lead out for 3/4pot - to POT sized bet on the flop... re-evaluate on the turn, if it's a brick, fire out another 2/3-3/4 pot bet. (what hands are we afraid of by shoving instead of just putting out a typical value bet.... 88 < ?,.... I doubt you'll ever get a fold there... so why not just play each street instead of the Huge Overshove on the flop? (unless of course you're getting called by fish w A5 or other worse hands, lol)

The object is to try to get him to make the biggest mistake possible, so if you think He'll call ai with any pair or draw then ai is the correct play. The question is, did you really know that for sure or were you just playing scared. It doesn't look to me like you had enough information to make any assumptions about the nature of his hand so IMO, the ai bet was way too much. Normally the only hands that will call you are the ones you don't want to. My standard play is 1/2-3/4 pot bet made hand or not. Sure you might get drawn out on or even bluffed out but that's just the way things go, and as you can see, shoving all-in is no protection from bad beats. All it does is make your opponents hand easier to play. Save the shoves for later in the tourney. And don't be results oriented. Of course it was a bad beat.
 
kidkvno1

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it's what the 2nd level on the blinds, i am sure you seen him call with weak hands. If you don't have a HUD, i would say to watch the HHs and make notes, if he calls to a showdown you can see what he has played.

Over betting makes it look an easy call, yeah it was a bad move on his part.
Thought, what i like to do with the AX callers, is to make it 4X to 5X for them to see the flop, i do this when i know the BB or SB won't fold to a raise.

Hope it helps you out. :)
 
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kmixer

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Actually the AP games start at 5/10 blinds so this is like 4th level. I know it was still early. Part of my move was seeing how loose the tables have been playing and the other part was tilt on my part I think.

At this buy in I am not sure the bigger pre flop raises are going to scare off Ax. I will give it a try. Though I do want to keep my pre flop raises the same throughout the game and no matter what hand i am holding when I open.

it's what the 2nd level on the blinds, i am sure you seen him call with weak hands. If you don't have a HUD, i would say to watch the HHs and make notes, if he calls to a showdown you can see what he has played.

Over betting makes it look an easy call, yeah it was a bad move on his part.
Thought, what i like to do with the AX callers, is to make it 4X to 5X for them to see the flop, i do this when i know the BB or SB won't fold to a raise.

Hope it helps you out. :)
 
kmixer

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I agree and this is partly why I jammed all in the way I did. I was expecting a call from anyone who caught a pice of the board and I was right. Just didn;t work out for me. I am sure these calls are made at higher levels too.

^^^
Only clue you need to determine the answer......
 
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cibonazg

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played it nice...but calling only with pair of fives...
terrible...
bad beat my friend...
maybe little more in preflop but he would call anyway right?
bad beat...
experienced few times myself
 
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Slow Roll Poker

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You did nothing wrong. You just hit a bad beat.

He made the bad move by calling preflop, there's nothing you could have done.

I don't understand why people think bottom pair is best.
 
salim271

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So we're shoving ~ 9x Pot on the flop? 'Typically' what worse hands would we (could we) expect to call there... &.... what better hands do we figure we're getting to fold?
Playing against extremely loose calling fish... sure we need to make adjustments BUT at the same time we still need to get value out of our monsters.
Why not lead out for 3/4pot - to POT sized bet on the flop... re-evaluate on the turn, if it's a brick, fire out another 2/3-3/4 pot bet. (what hands are we afraid of by shoving instead of just putting out a typical value bet.... 88 < ?,.... I doubt you'll ever get a fold there... so why not just play each street instead of the Huge Overshove on the flop? (unless of course you're getting called by fish w A5 or other worse hands, lol)

^This... I would be raising UTG with low blinds at least 4-5x... the shove on the flop made you look weak dude, not strong. I would probably consider calling you too, I've made similar shoves frustrated with AK. The villain had a pair on the flop, 20 percent to make two pair or three of a kind on the turn/river in case you did have him beat with something like KK. Anything greater than 10 percent isnt a bad beat...
 
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