AQ nightmare

Hi Guys
I have just played a sit n go there was only 3 of us left the guy to my right had been pushing a lot of hands. The chip stacks were fairly equal and the blinds were 300/600. He pused all in once again and i called with AQ. He had pocket 4s. Anyhow he won the hand but what Id like to know is 1) Did I make the right call? 2) Would it be to tight to fold in that situation? 3) How do you combat the all in monkeys?

can i ask this? would you have posted this here if you had won the hand?

seems like an easy call here, and it would be tight to fold. probably bad to fold..

and that "all in monkey" is probably playing pretty decent sng strategy. shoving in 44 here is a good shove.. and in fact, id be shoving a much wider range here if your debating over calling with AQ, in fact. id be shoving any two cards if i knew you were that tight minded

how to combat it? i suggest goign out and learning basic sng strategy

Cheers for that.
A great help and trying to loosen up in the later stages is the way forward me thinks

Have to agree with Wiz. That shorthanded you have to make the call, especially if your read is that the guy is an all-in monkey. Your odds were roughly 50/50 preflop.

I think this is a fair push and an equally valid call.

Yes, I don't know why this was titled ace queen nightmare.

Seems standard.

Races seem to be what you have to endure at the end of tourneys. Classic definition of a race is any pair vs 2 unpaired overcards, so the AQ would have played the exact same as T7o, or even 56 against a pair of 4's in this scenario. So probably the right title for the thread could be something like Race Nightmare.

While most of us understand the 'race' in late tourney situations, most of us would not play the T7 in my example because it is less likely we could feel good about it actually being a race. If villains pair was 88 then we would be severe dogs.

There is a conundrum with AQ. While there are really only 4 hands (AA,KK, QQ, AK) that it is a dog to, even Mike Sexton and Vince Van Patton joke about it. Seems it always shows up with a King flop which kills it.

3 handed no one usually has all that much time to wait for more perfect opportunities, and I would generally say that both players played that hand right.

Shove with equal stacks 44 on bubble: good move.
Call down with AQ: Good move

Both good moves, but only one can win. Thats poker and that's ur problem. We can't win them all.

dj11 said:

Races seem to be what you have to endure at the end of tourneys. Classic definition of a race is any pair vs 2 unpaired overcards, so the AQ would have played the exact same as T7o, or even 56 against a pair of 4's in this scenario. So probably the right title for the thread could be something like Race Nightmare.

While most of us understand the 'race' in late tourney situations, most of us would not play the T7 in my example because it is less likely we could feel good about it actually being a race. If villains pair was 88 then we would be severe dogs.

There is a conundrum with AQ. While there are really only 4 hands (AA,KK, QQ, AK) that it is a dog to, even Mike Sexton and Vince Van Patton joke about it. Seems it always shows up with a King flop which kills it.

3 handed no one usually has all that much time to wait for more perfect opportunities, and I would generally say that both players played that hand right.

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Sometimes to me it seems like on Full Tilt a T7 or 56 plays better against 4's.

very grateful for all the comments. The Reason I called it AQ nightmare was probably because I dont really like the hand and a lot of the time on stars you come up against AK. And if an A flops its so hard to get away from.

i would call here with a wider range really. A10+ KJ+ mostly any pair, maybe not the real small ones (to avoid facing a bigger pair which is not so nice)

BEEFMADRAS said:

Hi Guys
I have just played a sit n go there was only 3 of us left the guy to my right had been pushing a lot of hands. The chip stacks were fairly equal and the blinds were 300/600. He pused all in once again and i called with AQ. He had pocket 4s. Anyhow he won the hand but what Id like to know is 1) Did I make the right call? 2) Would it be to tight to fold in that situation? 3) How do you combat the all in monkeys?

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1. Yes you made the correct play
2. Yes you would be too tight specially when it's 3 handed
3. Nothing you can really do cause even the sun shines on a donkey's butt every once in awhile.

atlantafalcons0 said:

Sometimes to me it seems like on Full Tilt a T7 or 56 plays better against 4's.

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You let me know where your playing and call my shove with T7 or 56 and we'll see who comes out ahead.

BEEFMADRAS said:

Hi Guys
I have just played a sit n go there was only 3 of us left the guy to my right had been pushing a lot of hands. The chip stacks were fairly equal and the blinds were 300/600. He pused all in once again and i called with AQ. He had pocket 4s. Anyhow he won the hand but what Id like to know is 1) Did I make the right call? 2) Would it be to tight to fold in that situation? 3) How do you combat the all in monkeys?

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Actually with blinds at 300/600 they're not "allin monkeys",.. instead they're making the correct play here in most cases (ie. with avg. stack being 8bb's.. to consider raise/fold pre would be much worse).
His play imo was correct.. so was your call here.

santa fe slim said:

Have to agree with Wiz. That shorthanded you have to make the call, especially if your read is that the guy is an all-in monkey. Your odds were roughly 50/50 preflop.

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You say you agree w Wiz but you seem to be missing the key info. he was relating... the guy's definitely NOT an allin monkey by shoving with 44, lol (he could/should be shoving ALOT wider).

rollnutilt said:

1. Yes you made the correct play
2. Yes you would be too tight specially when it's 3 handed
3. Nothing you can really do cause even the sun shines on a donkey's butt every once in awhile.



You let me know where your playing and call my shove with T7 or 56 and we'll see who comes out ahead.

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But he 'knows' the villain is shoving w 44 LOL.
When you're finished... I too would like to play. Please pm me and advise of convenient time.

dj11 said:

3 handed no one usually has all that much time to wait for more perfect opportunities, and I would generally say that both players played that hand right.

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I really don't think it's as much about it being '3-handed' as it being shorstacked play ITM. Look at the size of the blinds!!! The avg. stack would be 8bb's

Just a little sidenote/example here for OP.. as far as what to expect and what might be considered 'good sng late stage play'.

My g/f made it ITm in a $55 Turbo SNG (9-plyr) the other night (3 left). One of the players just happened to be 'Beanmo' (well-known SNG coach & Poker Training Vid. Instructor for SNG's, at one of (if not 'the') top MTT/SNG Training vid. sites online).

Hand in question:
blinds at 150/300
UTG Beanmo w 3,950
g/f in SB w 3,420
BB with 6,130

g/f wakes up with JJ in SB

UTG shoves
g/f ... ???

she calls obviously... & Beanmo shows JTs v JJ.. YAY.... she's way ahead!! JTs turns a gutter & hits it on the river. Boom..she's out, lol.

This hand is just an example of a range of hands one could/should be considering shoving with in Late stage SNG play.

So is 'Beanmo' an allin monkey? idk... he's up over $60k in SNG's on Fulltilt alone and has played over 35,000 sng's. Probably knows what he's doing. (just a guess by me)

rollnutilt said:

You let me know where your playing and call my shove with T7 or 56 and we'll see who comes out ahead.

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If you have pocket fours I would be glad to call with my T7 or 56. All I was saying is that it seems like on tilt when you're up against pocket fours T7 or 56 plays better than an ace queen. It's my opinion.

Plus - don't you need a bankroll to be able to play me?

Assuming a rainbow of suits, T7 and 56 *should* play a little better than AQ against 44.

All three hands are just overcards, but in the case of AQ, one of your pairs (the ace) is slightly tainted by the wheel straight.

56 gets a slight boost by being able to make a higher straight every time 4 makes a straight, and 10-7 just has more straighting possibilities than AQ.

Check an odds calculator if you don't believe me

T7 (46.78%) vs 44 (52.08%)

56 (45.63%) vs 44 (52.29%)

AQ (45.7%) vs 44 (53.87%)

Ten seven is the best hand out of the three to go against pocket fours...

if your not going to call with aq here, what are you going to call with, so he got lucky and pushed with a low pair he would lose 7 out of 10 times with that

playerk7 said:

if your not going to call with aq here, what are you going to call with, so he got lucky and pushed with a low pair he would lose 7 out of 10 times with that

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Why would he lose 7 out of 10 times with that?

Look at the post directly above yours.

LOL

playerk7 said:

if your not going to call with aq here, what are you going to call with, so he got lucky and pushed with a low pair he would lose 7 out of 10 times with that

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More likely he would win 75% of the time that HERO is folding (random situation, not the particular AQ hand in question obv), and of the other 25% when HERO calls, villain is prob 45/55 vs Hero's range.. maybe 50/50.

atlantafalcons0 said:

If you have pocket fours I would be glad to call with my T7 or 56. All I was saying is that it seems like on tilt when you're up against pocket fours T7 or 56 plays better than an ace queen. It's my opinion.

Plus - don't you need a bankroll to be able to play me?

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Poker Orifice said:

But he 'knows' the villain is shoving w 44 LOL.
When you're finished... I too would like to play. Please pm me and advise of convenient time.

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I didn't mean to imply I was shoving with pocket 4s even if it was just us 3 playing I wouldn't make that kind of play. Sorry to get your hopes up. But when I do shove I expect you two to call me. I'll pm you both where we can play.

atlantafalcons0 said:

T7 (46.78%) vs 44 (52.08%)

56 (45.63%) vs 44 (52.29%)

AQ (45.7%) vs 44 (53.87%)

Ten seven is the best hand out of the three to go against pocket fours...

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Where did you get your odds?