Applying Minimum Defense Frequency

#1 September 26th, 2019, 6:17 PM

So I'm practicing playing against a poker AI called Alfie that plays a near optimal strategy and realized I have a major leak with overfolding to bets higher than 75% pot. And I realized it might be best to call sometimes...

This led me to coming up with the idea of weighing my decision to call with the pot odds somehow, and I discovered that this is an existing concept called minimum defence frequency.

My question is how do I correctly apply this?

At the moment my solution is to count not only my outs, but to start counting outs that I know will make a strong bluff as well. Ie: I basically count outs for my range rather than my hand and this drastically improves my pot odds.

However I don't know if this is the right approach nor what the proper way to use MDF is. I keep reading this concept is a high hanging fruit that won't provide much benefit, but it seems to be a major leak when facing chronic flop overbettors. How much of an improvement to winrate does implementing MDF really provide?

#2 September 27th, 2019, 3:42 AM

You often only use the concept in theory to get a better understanding of what type of ranges you should use to defend with.

Most human players are so unbalanced themselves that you should use different methods/strategies to not get exploited. By reading them better than they read you.

Se this: https://upswingpoker.com/minimum-def...y-vs-pot-odds/

and: https://upswingpoker.com/mdf-vs-no/

#3 September 27th, 2019, 4:46 PM

Thanks, this is great. Going over Doug's reasons not to use MDF I can't help but wonder if I should still be using them against a constantly bluffing overbettor, or somone who uses large cbet sizes. Imagine a player who just bets 90% pot on every single wet flop that comes up. Should I not float and/or use MDF occasionally? If I just use pot odds everytime I will have to fold everytime somone bets and will only call with made hands.

Or is that basically what I should be doing?

#4 November 4th, 2020, 6:51 PM

MDF counts well on rivers vs tough opponents. During the rest of the hand its Meh at best. heres a sample a nid position player opens min and you call from the big blind [5.5bb pot] flop comes AQ3rb you check and opener bets His range smashes on this flop and you have almost no strong hands in yours. so you should check fold the vast majority of it vs his almost certain c bet. If you call MDF your getting owned by almost his entire playing range MDF has you calling WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too often

#5 November 4th, 2020, 9:20 PM

Originally Posted by ventrolloquist

Thanks, this is great. Going over Doug's reasons not to use MDF I can't help but wonder if I should still be using them against a constantly bluffing overbettor, or somone who uses large cbet sizes. Imagine a player who just bets 90% pot on every single wet flop that comes up. Should I not float and/or use MDF occasionally? If I just use pot odds everytime I will have to fold everytime somone bets and will only call with made hands.

Or is that basically what I should be doing?

As 7 Card killer said, the time to apply MDF is on the river to ensure you aren't overfolding.

On the earlier streets there are more factors you need to be considering such that you will be showing up at the river with a well constructed range. If you try to follow MDF one earlier streets you will end up continuing with way too many hands on early streets and putting yourself in very unprofitable positions on later streets.

Do you have a link to Doug's post btw, would love to read that!

#6 November 6th, 2020, 2:13 AM

yeah MDF also counts as a guide to how often you fold the blinds esp the big blind. you need to defend enough there to keep the LPPs from becoming immediately profitable esp when on deep stacks where their positional advantage is at its greatest and range differential is high among a wide range of holdings

#7 November 6th, 2020, 5:51 AM

Evan,

Very informative and well constructed you tube on the subject.

I appreciate your contributions across platforms.

Thank you for them.

Stay Safe

~t

#8 November 6th, 2020, 6:51 AM

Interesting . Thanks, I think I may try out Alfie.

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Applying Minimum Defense Frequency

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