Can anyone here beat 2/4c limit hold em regularly?

I don't know what I do wrong. I play tight, aggressive, and limp speculative hands in the right situations, and bet my good hands. And lose.

Tips would be very welcome, or if someone would be willing to add me on msn and talk that would be helpful.

I would wager it's nearly impossible. Sorry, but at those low limits you're simply going to find too many donks who don't know when to fold, when to stop raising, etc etc. Most people won't see them as bets, and simply as another 2/4c, and will keep calling til they river you. If you have to keep playing it, try not to chase and don't bet unless you have the nuts

Of course you can beat it, but in fixed limit holdem the rake is so high that its quite hard to make any profit at the low limits.

Hmm, I have a BR that warrants me capable of playing $0.25/0.50 LHE, but my reasoning is:
1) If I can't beat the donks at $0.02/0.04, how will I be a winner at $0.25/0.50
2) Working my way up from $0.02/0.04, to $0.05/0.10 etc. while being a winning player at those levels would give me more confidence

Shorthanded huh, maybe i should try the 6 max ones.

I would try .05/.10, it's a bit better, but not much. .02/.04 has way to many callers, since you have the BR for it i would move up.
You have to watch for str8 draws, flush draws.
But you can beat it...
EDIT: Always go for 2 pair if you can, i find i'm getting beat less, with 2 pair or higher...

how often do you play in the pot...... you should be only playing only about 30% of the time....playing suited connector will help you gain more

NiceNisus said:

Hmm, I have a BR that warrants me capable of playing $0.25/0.50 LHE

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The place at 2c/4c and 25c/50c is going to be pretty equally horrible. Just move up to 10c/20c at least. By being that conservative with your bankroll, you're just wasting time.

yea its def beatable, i moved through it pretty quick did around 30k hands on shorthanded and FR, both beat them for around 8-10bb/100.

I was thinking about this earlier. Can I really build a bankroll that would qualify me to move up to a level that i am pretty sure I can beat. I think it is more trouble than it is worth. Not trying to be negative. I spend several hours a day on poker and I am still rolled only enough to play comfortably at the lowest levels. I know most would say that this means I am a losing player. I hold my own very well and for anyone here that has played against me I think they can testify to that. The problem is (as others have already stated) is that the people you are playing at these levels rely on pure luck to win and others are people from higher levels trying to cool off. Personally I think that makes for a pretty unbeatable game.

Grind I must though

try small balling with limit hold'em

Dreams of Tragedy said:

try small balling with limit hold'em

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Everytime I read a reply like this I want to burn my eyes out.

Either that, or I just got leveled :|

My gut tells me that no matter what level your comfortable playing at or can afford to play at is all relative. Inferior types are at every level. Granted, not as many at the lower levels who make those terrible calls to beat you but they are there at the next level as well. Most of the time I know I did not loose the hand becasue of an error on my part. He won becasue he got lucky and should never have called my bet or raise with his infeior cards.

My game has gone from the .01-.02 limit to the 10.-.20 limit games, and I find the inferior types still there. Seems at times I take 1 step forward and 2 steps back, but at the end of the day or month, my bankroll is usually better off. So, in the long run I agree with others that talk about solid play equates to solid performance. No matter what level we are at, we should continue our poker education, keep asking great questions, like you have here in this post, and I believe we will see improvements in both performance and our bankroll.

Good luck in your endevors.

If you're really serious about winning at the micro levels in limit hold'em, check out Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller, David Sklansky, and Mason Malmuth. It's not just about playing your good hands, but about opening your range where appropriate, and and knowing when to bet/raise/fold based on the situation. It assumes that you want a strategy for beating calling stations or players who can't help but raise non-stop. Knowing that you're playing against donks, you can set up a strategy where you're best set to be profitable. Good luck!

c9h13no3 said:

The place at 2c/4c and 25c/50c is going to be pretty equally horrible. Just move up to 10c/20c at least. By being that conservative with your bankroll, you're just wasting time.

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^^ Ya why bother messing around? No point playing 2c/4c unless BRM dictates so.

Nobody can win regularly at any level. Poker is a game of mostly luck and the really good players can only see a profit over a long time period. Even pro players will have ups and downs against inferior competition and it takes a lot of knowledge and a lot of discipline to be a winning player. You can have this result at micro levels online as well.

moeraj said:

Nobody can win regularly at any level. Poker is a game of mostly luck and the really good players can only see a profit over a long time period. Even pro players will have ups and downs against inferior competition and it takes a lot of knowledge and a lot of discipline to be a winning player. You can have this result at micro levels online as well.

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What do you mean by regularly? You can certainly be a regular winner at micro stakes, you can "beat" levels by staying profitable on an annual basis. Maybe you're just referring to downswings? But it's not unreasonable to say that it's possible to be a consistent winner at a given level or a regular winner if you mean you're profitable long term at those stakes.

I agree with you if you're saying you can't ever be good enough to win every hand.

I think its pretty tough to kill it at these tables constantly. The low level of experience (in most players cases) mean its tough to make any kind of sophisticated plays and have them respected. Its better to play these limits conservatively and take a small profits, rather than being sucked out on and risk having semi-bluffs called down by players who dont know any better.
Omaha Hi/Lo is pretty profitable at these limits though.

It is tougher with Limit because you can't value bet the bad players. Very easy to crush micro no-limits just by set mining and play high potential hands cheaply preflop. Donks just can't put TPTK down!

only_bridge said:

Of course you can beat it, but in fixed limit holdem the rake is so high that its quite hard to make any profit at the low limits.

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^^^^^ this.

NiceNisus said:

Hmm, I have a BR that warrants me capable of playing $0.25/0.50 LHE, but my reasoning is:
1) If I can't beat the donks at $0.02/0.04, how will I be a winner at $0.25/0.50 The problem with low limits is that there are a lot of donks, which make it more difficult to be consistently successful. At higher limits, solid play and more advanced strategy often gets rewarded, where as it does not work at lower limits. At lower limits, position is still power, but not to the same extent as at higher limits. I have been able to consistently beat the .02/.05 tables. You have to ram the pot when you hit your hand. TP/TK is often met against middle pair weak kicker or a drawing hand. Take calling odds away. You might still get called, but you will win in more of these scenarios than you will lose. And you are looking for your play to be rewarded long term instead of immediately. You might lose a session, but make the same play over 10 hands and your 8/1 favorite will be profitable for you over that time. Also, don't get caught being the one chasing a draw against odds. It is the biggest BR killer out there.

2) Working my way up from $0.02/0.04, to $0.05/0.10 etc. while being a winning player at those levels would give me more confidence

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I agree about the confidence, but if you are rolled for the .05/.10, why not give it a shot and see if your style is more profitable at those limits. It might not be, and you might make a higher ROI at the lower limits, but you will not know until you try. Find the game that you are most profitable, and stick with it.

I really don't see what the problem is with other players calling when they shouldn't, in the long term that is EXACTLY what you want. All you can do is make good decisions, bet the right amount so he pays to draw... NEVER give free cards unless you got the absolute or near absolute nuts.

IMO I WANT to be taking bad beats cos this proves I am playing against far inferior opposition. Sure donk might win that 5% chance but think of the other 19 times you are gonna stack him for all his cash.

As long as you are rolled for the game in which you are playing and can accept that poker is a cruel game, play enough hands and have the patience to wait for lady luck to even out you simply CANT lose against these idiots in the long run.

The long run is what poker is all about cos thats what brings out the skill.

Dont sweat it, just be aggressive, keep ur ego out of it, don't bet against the odds or do anything stupid, play each hand like its you first and you WILL WIN.

I say bring on the calling stations cos at the end of the day their cash will be ours.

Oh, and just some more incentive to move up to $0.25/$0.50 (or higher) if your bankroll can afford it:

Max rake @ $0.02/$0.04 is $0.04 or 1 big bet.
Max rake @ $0.10/$0.20 is $0.20 or 1 big bet.
Max rake @ $0.25/$0.50 is $0.40 or 0.8 big bets.
Max rake @ $0.50/$1.00 is $0.50 or 0.5 big bets.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/rake/

If you think that's a small difference, consider the following:

1) Most limit game win-rates are usually only in the range of 1-2 BB/100 hands.
2) You pay that rake *every pot you play*, and it adds up wicked fast.

So getting your bankroll up to the point where you can play at least $0.50/$1 will make it a lot easier for you to win, and the play is pretty equally bad all the way up to $1/$2. So if I were going to make a deposit to play LHE, I'd be depositing at least $350-$400 so I could play at least $0.50/$1.

Well we may be arguing over semantics. I would not consider consistently to mean u can win every hand but I would consider winning every day to be consistent.I think even the best players have big enough downswings to state that they are not winning consistently. Yes i agree that some players can win money on an annual basis against inferior competition.