Any idea what I did / am doing wrong?

B

Beasty2k

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As I said before I am a new player trying to learn the fundamentals and playing micro-stakes (10NL).

Yesterday I tried to play multi table cash games for the first time (4 tables), in order to focus more on playing ABC rather than getting caught up in psychology. I found this working - I did not have time to think long about every move, but rather just trying to be tight and doing the right thing. Being agrressive when I had a hand etc. I only had time to glance at position, who else was in the hand, my cards and the community cards.

I do not use a HUD. Must I?

Overall, much to my enjoyment, this seemed to work fine. I wasn't winning any big pots, but after about one hour I was up on all four tables (from USD 10 to about 12).

I didn't really change any strategy at this point, but for some reason I started to lose biggish pots suddenly. I went all in on a 2-pair (overpair hole cards, low flop) and got caught with a straight. I called a bluff correctly but he got his trips on the river.(whichI obviously played correctly but was unlucky). In total, I went all-in / called all-in on 5-6 occasions and lost all but one (which was small). After 2.5 hours, I had lost quite a bit. The only table I had made money on was a very slow, full ring table where every hand took 3 mins to play (about USD 18 when I left). They seemed to fold my every bet.

Without getting too specific, I seem to have trouble reading straights - it may have to do that I am not ready for multitabling (not sure its my cup of tea anyway, just did it to push myself to play ABC), as I do not have enough time to check the board and potential straight draws. I dunno. Or could it be something else?

But is there an overall suggestion on how I should avoid losing big pots like this? I may be misjudging the villains' card, being overly optimistic. I generally do not have trouble folding, but whenever I do go all-in, I seem to lose every time.

Is the general conception that if someone goes all in, even at micro-stakes, they have a monster? Am I under-estimating the villians' hands?

Please help me out in any comments and input you think I might find helpful. Appreciate the help guys!
 
micromachine

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I would advise playing lower than 10nl at first while you are learning the fundamentals.

Sounds like you are mixing 6max and full ring tables, it's best to stick to one type of cash game imo, especially in the same session.

Also, no need to go to 4 tables straight away, you can add them one by one until you are used to the increased speed. If you don't have time to read the board as you say, then 4 is clearly too fast for you right now.

You may possibly be under-estimating the strength of villains hands in all-in pots but it's hard to say without seeing the hands themselves.
 
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Beasty2k

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I would advise playing lower than 10nl at first while you are learning the fundamentals.

Sounds like you are mixing 6max and full ring tables, it's best to stick to one type of cash game imo, especially in the same session.

Also, no need to go to 4 tables straight away, you can add them one by one until you are used to the increased speed. If you don't have time to read the board as you say, then 4 is clearly too fast for you right now.

You may possibly be under-estimating the strength of villains hands in all-in pots but it's hard to say without seeing the hands themselves.

Thanks for the reply! I might have been unclear but I do in fact have time to read the board while 4 tabling, as well as make ABC-decisions (which is what I am after; too much time to think only makes me do the wrong thing, I want statistics on the hands I am losing).

I do know the most fundamentals and while playing just one table (10NL), I over time am profitable. I am a thinking player and I really try. bankroll is enough for 10NL (have doubled it).

I will try to post some hands to see if I can get some feedback on them, considering if I under-estimate them or not. I just I take the "micro-stakes = bad players" thought a bit too far.

The best wisdom I learned from last nights session was the number of hands, and consistently losing bigger pots - something I need to straighten out.
 
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B

Beasty2k

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Get a HUD and start at 2NL.

Thanks. As I wrote in the other reply I have been playing for a few weeks and doubled my BR playing single-table 10NL. I am a thinking player and try to work with pot-odds, position and other fundamentals.

The only reason I haven't got a HUD yet is that I enjoy playing on the iphone App (!), pokerstars. Very handy.

Questions that follow are:
1) When multitabling, obviously it is increasingly difficult to read players & ranges, is this when HUD becomes extra important?
2) Let's say it's early in the session, would you say that playing micros (for instance 10NL) I should consider most players to be thinking players? I.e. a larger PF bet from early position signals a strong hand, and a limp from the button signals a huge range? Very generally speaking that is?

Thanks again for all help I can get.
 
micromachine

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1) Yes, HUDs are very useful when multi-tabling

2) A lot of players at 10nl know what they are doing, they may not be great but they understand the game so I suppose you could say they are 'thinking players'. It's a mixture of those players and total fish, so you need to table select a bit to find the fish. This is a another way the HUD is so useful, you can identify the regs and fish fairly quickly based on their stats.
 
Worak

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Thanks. As I wrote in the other reply I have been playing for a few weeks and doubled my BR playing single-table 10NL. I am a thinking player and try to work with pot-odds, position and other fundamentals.

The only reason I haven't got a HUD yet is that I enjoy playing on the iPhone APP (!), Pokerstars. Very handy.

Questions that follow are:
1) When multitabling, obviously it is increasingly difficult to read players & ranges, is this when HUD becomes extra important?
2) Let's say it's early in the session, would you say that playing micros (for instance 10NL) I should consider most players to be thinking players? I.e. a larger PF bet from early position signals a strong hand, and a limp from the button signals a huge range? Very generally speaking that is?

Thanks again for all help I can get.

Well I'm mostly a MTT player but I do think what I say still applies.

a) Yes it is but that's not the main reason.

A tracker does much more for you as it stores every hand you come across, it shows your opponents ranges and if applied properly indicates leaks and spots where you need to improve.

b) As said I'm not a cash game player but I often hear that most players below 100NL suck.

But obviously chances are that 2NL players suck more than 10NL players.
 
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Beasty2k

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Well I'm mostly a MTT player but I do think what I say still applies.

a) Yes it is but that's not the main reason.

A tracker does much more for you as it stores every hand you come across, it shows your opponents ranges and if applied properly indicates leaks and spots where you need to improve.

b) As said I'm not a cash game player but I often hear that most players below 100NL suck.

But obviously chances are that 2NL players suck more than 10NL players.

Interesting, thanks. Does the HUD in fact give me the ranges without me having to think? When reading hand analysis there are always tons of ways to determine the range, what is the point of that if the HUD does it for you?
 
Worak

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Interesting, thanks. Does the HUD in fact give me the ranges without me having to think? When reading hand analysis there are always tons of ways to determine the range, what is the point of that if the HUD does it for you?

Well since a HUD notes every action it gives you more information than you would be able to write down -especially when multitabling.

Also since it stores the info you'll have it handy even weeks or months later when you run into the same player again.

Depending on which stats you include you can draw conclusions at a glance.
 
dj11

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Interesting, thanks. Does the HUD in fact give me the ranges without me having to think?

None that are approved would add that to the HUD/Tracker. The HUD will show you a number representing a villains activity (overall) and that is the VPIP. Typically VPIP relates to a hand strength chart so a VPIP of 15 will correlate very closely to that player playing the top 15% of hands. VPIP is nice but it is an overall value that does not take into consideration position variations that most decent player employ.

If you have a good gut feel on hand strength ratings, you won't have to think much to relate that VPIP to a hand range. If you have not had a hand strength chart handy, print one out while you are learning your HUD, and learn it via quick checks when you need to. If you are a savant, memorize it.

The most recent versions of the trackers can provide a better breakdown of positional actions. With a click you can get expanded stats on your villains.

If you give yourself credit for improving, you need to also give credit (to some degree) that your villains will be improving. IMHO, unless you are playing the same people day after day, massive numbers of hands on a player mean little. A few days worth of numbers gives me info on how a player is playing recently, huge numbers of hands give me numbers skewed by how that player was playing 2 years ago. I much prefer to know how he is playing today, not last year.
 
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Arjonius

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Why go from 1 table to 4? I suggest 2, then 3 before 4. At some point thereafter, you may be able to start adding more than one at a time, but when and even if you can at all are pretty person-dependent.

Also, if you think you can effectively 4-table plus read boards by playing ABC, you may or may not be fooling yourself. Depending on your ability advantage or lack thereof, the amount of attention you need to pay in order to be +EV won't always be the same. As a simple example, if you happen to sit at four weak tables, ABC will be more effective than if you're at tables where the competition is tougher overall and/or where some of the opponents are good enough to take advantage of ABC players.
 
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