Always "all-in" preflop with pocket AA's?

#1 February 9th, 2013, 4:05 PM

I know it is conventional wisdom to go all-in preflop with pocket AA's. However, I'm beginning to wonder, depending on position. If I am just after the BB, I almost never get a call. Okay for just a modest raise, when in the first 2 positions after the BB? What do you think?

#2 February 9th, 2013, 4:08 PM

Sorry folks, just noticed that I should have had this thread in poker strategy.

#3 February 9th, 2013, 4:19 PM

I don't mean to be rude. But are you saying you shove regardless of pot size or blind size or anything? I don't think thats a great way to play aces. Unless your shove looks weak. I.e. heads up from the small blind or from the button. I'm not surprised people dont call. A out of the blue shove from an early position looks very strong.

#4 February 9th, 2013, 4:20 PM

It is not conventional wisdom to go all in with AA preflop. I don't know if you play tournaments or cash but it isn't the right play most of the time in either.

You can't have an across the board strategy for playing any hand. It depends on position, stack sizes, blind levels, how the other players play etc.

#5 February 9th, 2013, 4:27 PM

yeah, quite a few variables go in to that decision

#6 February 10th, 2013, 6:59 AM

Originally Posted by dakota-xx

It is not conventional wisdom to go all in with AA preflop. I don't know if you play tournaments or cash but it isn't the right play most of the time in either.

You can't have an across the board strategy for playing any hand. It depends on position, stack sizes, blind levels, how the other players play etc.

What she said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You give us no idea of what type of poker you are playing... and you are losing serious chips/money if you are playing this way

#7 February 10th, 2013, 9:50 AM

A-A is the one hand that I am trying to get all my chips in with pre-flop. That doesn't mean open shoving. If I'm holding A-Q and you open shove, I'm going to think to myself as I fold, "I hope he just wasted Aces". I play tight, so I'm generally raising 3x + 1x for each limper in front of me with most hands I play. That includes A-A. While you don't want to open shove and risk not getting any value out of them, you don't want to limp in or min raise and end up playing the pot with half of the table. For each player that comes into the pot your chances of having those Aces cracked rises significantly. You should be raising at least 3x + 1x per limper to try to limit the number of players in the pot. If the pot is raised in front of you, you should 3-bet. If it's 3-bet, you should 4-bet until you are sure that your man isn't folding or that there are enough chips in the pot to satisfy you, then, and only then, should you be shoving.

#8 February 17th, 2013, 1:01 AM

There are some common scenarios where calling pre-flop with AA instead of 3-betting can be preferable.

If you're in the blinds facing a single raise, and your stacks are extremely deep, then you're just building a big pot out of position where you aren't able to get the SPR low enough to avoid giving your opponent huge implied odds with a lot of hands. In this situation, the deep stacks make your positional disadvantage more important of a consideration than your cards.

Another common spot is when you're in early position facing an early position raise. Suppose in a 9-handed game UTG open raises, and you're in UTG+1 or UTG+2 with AA. Unless your ranges are balanced well, 3-betting here will often get even KK to fold against a lot of decent opponents in small stakes games. Calling is often a superior option.

#9 February 17th, 2013, 3:22 AM

For cash games, I will push my stack when I am reraised. It generally is best to only do this preflop. Any pair gets weaker on each next street, so that by fifth unimproved you are looking at a weak hand to consider an all in bet especially against a paired board, connected cards or three suited cards on board. All in as the first in after the deal will seldom get a call and basically wins you the blinds.

#10 February 17th, 2013, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dokuja

I know it is conventional wisdom to go all-in preflop with pocket AA's. However, I'm beginning to wonder, depending on position. If I am just after the BB, I almost never get a call. Okay for just a modest raise, when in the first 2 positions after the BB? What do you think?

Open jaming or shoving over anyone who raises or limps is just bad.

It really depends on stack sizes and what the avg BB stack is, because if you get 2 limpers or a raier whatever and you're all 100bb deep then shoving all-in, whilst being profitble is never going to be the optimal move.

Just raise to a size based on villians stack sizes.

#11 February 18th, 2013, 11:17 PM

also depends on how any people are already in the pot, shipping it with aces when 8 ppl are in the hand isnt such a good play

#12 February 19th, 2013, 4:07 AM

for what it's worth, the all in worked its magic on me. i was BB with 10/4o. villain on button went all in, i folded. rabbit = would have hit two pair on the flop!

#13 February 19th, 2013, 4:46 AM

conventional wisdom is dont fold AA preflop

#14 February 21st, 2013, 3:00 PM

AA although always nice sometimes it seems it is a win small or
lose big situation if not played right...

#15 February 23rd, 2013, 8:21 PM

Wasn�t there an interesting famous WSOP AA vs. JJ hand between Affleck and Duhamel, where it would have been better to put it all-in pre-flop with Aces ? Instead Affleck wanted to induce action, the board was ugly and he paid the prize...

#16 February 24th, 2013, 12:27 AM

its wiser to see the flop and not get cracked on a preflop shove in my opinion slow playing aces can make more profit then shove and pray

#17 February 24th, 2013, 2:06 AM

Originally Posted by nkrijeka

for what it's worth, the all in worked its magic on me. i was BB with 10/4o. villain on button went all in, i folded. rabbit = would have hit two pair on the flop!

Prolly should just go ahead & take credit for a great pre flop fold.

#18 February 24th, 2013, 2:18 AM

This is really a predicament for me because of whats been happening to me having pocket aces preflop and losing in the end with opponents rags. When you try and slow play it sometimes it bites you in the ass but when you all in with and some donk calls with rags and somehow hits them your also in trouble! Gah sometimes its just all about your luck!

#19 February 24th, 2013, 2:45 AM

Originally Posted by dadsrus

its wiser to see the flop and not get cracked on a preflop shove in my opinion slow playing aces can make more profit then shove and pray

Do not do not do not slow play aces. Play them Agressively. Doesnt mean insta shove but bet heavily

#20 February 24th, 2013, 2:55 AM

Actually your action large depends on the situation, such as your position, your and your opponents' stack, the stage of the tourney or game and what your table image is. It is true that if you go all in UTG you will be most likely to get respect from others.

#21 February 24th, 2013, 3:40 AM

Originally Posted by Blobweird123

Do not do not do not slow play aces. Play them Agressively. Doesnt mean insta shove but bet heavily

trappin can be a great way to get chips in tournys if your into playing that way as i do. i play AA's like most hands preflop i like to see the flop for a reasonable price and have had enough experince to know where there are pocket AA's there are sure to be other pocket pairs involved.but really it does depend on where ya are on the table and how deep ya are just my opion tho

#22 March 7th, 2013, 1:07 AM

I'd raise anywhere from 3BB+ depending on position and the dynamics of the table. I always shove or raise big if the flop yields a flush or straight draw so that any fishermen at the table have to fish expensively.

#23 March 7th, 2013, 1:13 AM

Originally Posted by dadsrus

trappin can be a great way to get chips in tournys if your into playing that way as i do. i play AA's like most hands preflop i like to see the flop for a reasonable price and have had enough experince to know where there are pocket AA's there are sure to be other pocket pairs involved.but really it does depend on where ya are on the table and how deep ya are just my opion tho

The only person you're trapping is yourself though. Your hand almost never gets better post flop. Every card they see is more outs for their draws. That's not to say we don't want them to call with draws alot, we do. But we want them to pay for every draw they chase. Otherwise what's the point?

#24 March 7th, 2013, 1:24 AM

Ideally you want to see a flop with opponents with other premium hands.

So given your reads, position, and game status/blind levels, bet whatever it takes to clear the field down to big pocket pairs or AK junkies.

Form my experience in lesser games like a $10-$30 BI, maybe 5x in pos.

In a "real game" or most deep ITM games, Id play them like any other playable hand and treat them no better than any PP.

If that TAG player UTG shoves post flop following the TK3 rainbow, I drop that shit like a cheating girlfriend.

#25 March 7th, 2013, 4:22 AM

Originally Posted by Blobweird123

The only person you're trapping is yourself though. Your hand almost never gets better post flop. Every card they see is more outs for their draws. That's not to say we don't want them to call with draws alot, we do. But we want them to pay for every draw they chase. Otherwise what's the point?

I totally agree with you. "survival " is the only word i can think of thanks for keeping my head in the right direction but sometimes in tournys i'll take what i can get with AA's and just add chips to my stack big pots or small im not always in a rush to have alll my chips in pre-flop or flop i like to see the river controling the pot early is something i try to do but ovb iously still learning cheers

#26 March 7th, 2013, 4:23 AM

Originally Posted by CAMurray

Ideally you want to see a flop with opponents with other premium hands.

So given your reads, position, and game status/blind levels, bet whatever it takes to clear the field down to big pocket pairs or AK junkies.

Form my experience in lesser games like a $10-$30 BI, maybe 5x in pos.

In a "real game" or most deep ITM games, Id play them like any other playable hand and treat them no better than any PP.

If that TAG player UTG shoves post flop following the TK3 rainbow, I drop that shit like a cheating girlfriend.

well said

#27 March 7th, 2013, 4:31 AM

Ofc I'm not saying always shove and GII. Im saying that I will bet them if I feel im still ahead vs villains range and what is present. I won't slow play em.

#28 March 17th, 2013, 6:35 PM

A lot of variables imo. One thing I suggest considering is pot size in relation to BBs in your stack. if there's 2 limpers, and 2 BB in pot , and you have 75 BBs, a shove is sort of overkill unless you're fairly sure you will get a call. Best wishes!

#29 March 17th, 2013, 10:21 PM

In a perfect world the flop pot should be heads up and contain no less than 1/4 of the lowest stacked players chips in the hand. Allowing for all in by the turn to be profitable over the long term without regard fot board texture. Realistically this can only happen with very small stacks or with a raise and a reraise. If the flop pot is more than 1/4 the smaller stack, you have to play poker but up to 1/6 stack sized flop pot is usually worth a stack if you think your opponent would stack off with top pair. The deeper your stacks are related the pot after the flop the more carefully you need to play your AA.

#30 March 21st, 2013, 7:07 AM

The only instance I have folded AA on purpose is when I saw 6 people go all-in at my table in a tournament I wanted to stay in. AA is a lot weaker against 6 hands.
(a flush won. I would have lost).
I try to avoid all-in calls until my stack is bigger than theirs.

However...

Why always all-in pre-flop as OP suggests?

Especially in early position where people consider your entry more serious, an all-in hand is often folded to at a tight table.

Why not limp in with the aces against a few opponents and hope one of them hits a lower pair. In such cases you often wind up with 1/3 or more of their pot. It is called slow playing bullets, and it can bite your butt when the player gets a set of 2's by the river.

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Always "all-in" preflop with pocket AA's?

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