All-In Preflop w/AA or loosing with Top Pair?

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Zer0-0uts

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So we all know it is a bad move to call all of your chips off with a measly top pair. Let's look at two different hand scenarios.

Hand 1
You have AA. You raise your standard pre-flop amount. You get one caller. The flop comes 9T4. You bet post flop. The villain re-raises all in and you call. Now all of the sudden you have no chips left because the villain called your pre-flop raise with 44 and flopped a set.

Hand 2
You have AA. You raise your standard pre-flop amount. You get one player who pushes all in. Excited that you got action on your pocket aces, you snap call. This hand has the same flop scenario. The turn and river are both blanks for you. Again, you have no chips left.

Why is scenario 1 seen as a bad play, but 2 is seen as a bad beat?
 
Gabinho12345

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First hand isn't a bad play, both hands are played well. 2nd is a bad beat because you got all your chips in with the best hand and lost.
 
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Zer0-0uts

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So what about if the same hand plays out, but instead of getting the chip all in pre flop it happens post flop. You lead out with a C-bet, the villain shoves, you call. What about in this situation?
 
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ph_il

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So we all know it is a bad move to call all of your chips off with a measly top pair. Let's look at two different hand scenarios.
...This really depends on a lot of things. In some situations, it's perfectly fine. In others, it might not be.

Hand 1
You have AA. You raise your standard pre-flop amount. You get one caller. The flop comes 9T4. You bet post flop. The villain re-raises all in and you call. Now all of the sudden you have no chips left because the villain called your pre-flop raise with 44 and flopped a set.
...Depends on how much was left you had to call. Villain isn't always jamming 44 here. They could easily have 99, TT, 9T, A9, J10+, JJ+, 89, JQ, KQs [if flush is possible]. So, a lot of hands villain can have here. Depending on villains range, the call could be good one but you just got unlucky and ran into a set.

Hand 2
You have AA. You raise your standard pre-flop amount. You get one player who pushes all in. Excited that you got action on your pocket aces, you snap call. This hand has the same flop scenario. The turn and river are both blanks for you. Again, you have no chips left.
...Unless in very specific situations, this is an easy breezy, beautiful cover girl of a call. Results are whatever.

Why is scenario 1 seen as a bad play, but 2 is seen as a bad beat?
...I don't think scenario 1 is a bad play. Scenario 2 is a "bad beat" because you were a head when the money went in and lost.
above.
 
sryulaw

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does not find the first play bad, and neither. Playing with AA has to be aggressive, in the long run you are in the profit .. more difficult to play with AA, you have to have a strong emotional control .. I prefer to play QKs 1010, 10.9s than with AA in the final possibilities of course. At last, it's my only thought.
 
cranberry

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1 scenario - all further game depends on the player with AA. The player with AA is required to assess the opponents and their bets and then make a decision about the game after the flop. In this case, if the player with AA was wrong, then it's a bad game.

2 scenario - in this case the probability theory plays a role - it's a bad beat.
 
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So we all know it is a bad move to call all of your chips off with a measly top pair. Let's look at two different hand scenarios.

Hand 1
You have AA. You raise your standard pre-flop amount. You get one caller. The flop comes 9T4. You bet post flop. The villain re-raises all in and you call. Now all of the sudden you have no chips left because the villain called your pre-flop raise with 44 and flopped a set.

Hand 2
You have AA. You raise your standard pre-flop amount. You get one player who pushes all in. Excited that you got action on your pocket aces, you snap call. This hand has the same flop scenario. The turn and river are both blanks for you. Again, you have no chips left.

Why is scenario 1 seen as a bad play, but 2 is seen as a bad beat?

Scenario 1 is considered bad play because players have seen the flop first. Preflop game was of course right as was the raise after that but if someone calls your preflop raise and then re-raises after the flop, your alarm should be ringing. That's were the mistake happened. Would they really reraise you if they have nothing or just one pair? Of course they might be bluffing too but quite often they have at least two pairs in that situation. And when you are holding Aces, you only have one pair which doesn't hold very well if someone else has shown that kind of strength.

Scenario 2 is considered bad beat because you had the best hand and percentages on your side when you went all-in. Simple as that.

Folding Aces is always difficult but players would be saving a lot of money if they would learn to fold those Aces if someone shows that kind of strength after the flop as in scenario 1. After all, pocket Aces are still only one pair unless another Ace or draw comes up.
 
Diegol

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It's a bad beat in both hands but in the first one the other player play well his pocket pair and in the second one he doesn't
 
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Either play is ok, but indeed think twice when you have raised and your c-bet is countered by a 3 bet or all in.

Still, when you are beat do not feel to bad unless you are loosing almost USD 500.000 against a set of 4's.

Watch: Bill Klein & Matt Kirk Collide in $980,000 Pot
 
milka1605

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In the first case, when the villain picked up after your raise, there was still the possibility of folding. In the second after the allin, nothing can be fixed - a bad blow.
 
krisi77

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I think both hands are wrong, we have to play all in to perflop to see how will pay
with a pair of fours
 
Antulio francis

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if you play AA in this way you are losing to the deck and do not stop the opponents I particularly analyze the following the opponents stack my position and the probability of one or more players wrapping in the hand if you have out of position UTG type if you do 3x no blind 100 200 you will have a bigger chance of more player involved in the move so if the blind is 100 200 I do 4x in position I think it's ok to do 3x and we have to remember that AA only is nust pre.flop
 
krisi77

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if there is someone against you who understands the game of poker and plays with a big enough bet he should never call oll in a pair of four
 
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I'd try to find a game where the idiots don't go all in with a pair of fours
 
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I'd try to find a game where the idiots don't go all in with a pair of fours

Why? Aren't those idiots exactly the ones you want to play with? If I am holding aces, I definitely want my opponent to go or call all-in with pocket fours. It's just bad luck if I lose every now and then but in the long run, the odds are in my favor and I win. I always find it funny when people complain about bad players because that's where the money comes from, don't forget that.
 
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Bad Luck not a Bad Beat

In Scenario One, the person does not know that the other person has pocket Aces. Depending on the situation, raising Pocket 4s is a good idea. For instance, 44 is ahead of AK or any other terrific non-pair hands. If there are callers, raising is the best move because 44 is a heads-up hand and it will win about half the time.

For me, you can't have a "Bad Beat" when it comes to pairs. They beat other pairs and high cards. Losing to 44 with AA happens about one fifth of the time. With the best flop, you may have your AA with a close ended straight draw. So at best, you have 6 outs; the remaining two Aces and the the 4 cards for your straight draw. Any pocket pair has the potential to be beaten with the flop and chances are that your opponent has more outs than you. All-in is for when your short-stacked or when you are forcing someone who is short-stacked all-in. There are many other bets that will kill a drawing hand without guaranteeing that all cards will be shown.
 
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Raise from the beginning, or risk letting someone see the flop.
 
Gamebreakr25

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So we all know it is a bad move to call all of your chips off with a measly top pair. Let's look at two different hand scenarios.

Hand 1
You have AA. You raise your standard pre-flop amount. You get one caller. The flop comes 9T4. You bet post flop. The villain re-raises all in and you call. Now all of the sudden you have no chips left because the villain called your pre-flop raise with 44 and flopped a set.

Hand 2
You have AA. You raise your standard pre-flop amount. You get one player who pushes all in. Excited that you got action on your pocket aces, you snap call. This hand has the same flop scenario. The turn and river are both blanks for you. Again, you have no chips left.

Why is scenario 1 seen as a bad play, but 2 is seen as a bad beat?
I don't think scenario 1 was played bad. My chips would end up in the middle by scenario 1 or 2. The villain would have to show me that unlikely set. BUT ... If it was a multi-way pot in scenario 1 and the villain had reraised all in with another player in front of you calling ... I would think harder about a fold.
 
Future_Pr00F

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Just because you hold AA dose not mean that you are best even pre flop.

It depends if you are prepared to risk your stack or not?
I have folded AA preflop in big tourneys to prevent being beat by some B.S hand.

Generally met by such bold aggression means they want to rep a bluff but have de nuts.

dont be affraid to fold AA and wait for a better spot post flop where you know your good!
 
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The preflop AA hand is the strongest with about 82% chance of winning (approximately 4/1). In this case, the call will be a break-even rate. After the flop, the situation is somewhat different. Perhaps now you are far behind against one of the sets. The villain offers you the benefit of 1/1 pot at the same time, your chances of collecting a set on the river are 1/22. Call in this case will be a bad game.
 
tauri103

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for me the two scenarios are beats beat.That's why the plupard of the time I run all-in preflop to avoid over-benefitting my opponents.3bet it's a good strategy but you take more risk because after it's the flop that will dictate its law.
 
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Because in hand 1 you had the option to get away from the hand , hand 2 you didn't . The reraise told you he was strong and you chose to call anyway .
 
seven_outs

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I would say because the flop is drawheavy with 9T and the villain called a raise, so you could potentually put him on QJ, KJ, AJ,JJ.

Scenario 2 is a bad beat, as the others already said, you had the best hand preflop, but never forget: one out of five times, aces will lose.
 
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