AK Question??

J

JamaicanKid

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So I think I've found a major weakest (leak) in my cash game. And it is with hands such as AQ and AK.....Just yesterday I lost a $50 pot on Fulltilt and I think it was a result of my god awful play.... So usually I am at table playing tight...guys are raising and raising decent bet sizes so I just fold...When I pick up AK I just usually smooth call <<< Ergo, the problem I think.....Back to the example of the pot I lost yesterday (25NL) ..Villain raised to a $1.50 I smoothed called with AK.....flop came K 6 Q rainbow.....villian bets I raised..he raised I shoved ALLIN.......villain delays for quite a bit (which I was happy about, surely this meant I was ahead) .....NOT...villains flips over k6 (offsuit) ..WTF??...turn card (I don't remember)..River card a 6 making him a fullhouse.......

Ok I played that hand god awful but this table was playing extremely tight... what I'd like to know is: In what situations do you guys push with AK?? Would you have just should've preflop?? I definitely should've reraised him preflop, that I know..but what if I had raised him preflop and he still called?? One thing is for sure TV Poker is misleading.....guy makes donk moves like this all the time on High Stakes Poker and usually win with AK in these spots :D lol
 
demibar

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Cash games....the most of players are tight AK is 3 or 4 bet and sometimes all in to me but in cash they dont call your bet you had AK your opponent K6 yes you had to reraise preflop but i think you didnt because you wanted to hide your good hand and win more... so he pay few $ to play K6 and he won thats why you had to reraise preflop to avoid that situation. If hewas tight player and. He reraised you though he was bluffing or have k with smaller kicker that you had but you didnt suspected K6 or KQ so you could fold or you could follow without shove all your money ..but ok we do mistakes its instant decision you took in poker take your time before you act :)
 
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Adjust when you are playing poker, go all in with 2 pairs or better (you want to put your chips in good, no ? ) loose players sometimes can win( it's ok ..) when you are playing with LAG or fish be more tighty, reraise with AK in any position ( in my opinion) to get value, fold to a 4bet if a NIT does it .
 
J

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Cash games....the most of players are tight AK is 3 or 4 bet and sometimes all in to me but in cash they dont call your bet you had AK your opponent K6 yes you had to reraise preflop but i think you didnt because you wanted to hide your good hand and win more... so he pay few $ to play K6 and he won thats why you had to reraise preflop to avoid that situation. If hewas tight player and. He reraised you though he was bluffing or have k with smaller kicker that you had but you didnt suspected K6 or KQ so you could fold or you could follow without shove all your money ..but ok we do mistakes its instant decision you took in poker take your time before you act :)

Yea on the flop there only a few that could have had me beat....If he had KK 66 QQ, KQ, AA or of course AK would give me a split........66: I seriously doubted, KK: I thought, wooow the one time I have top pair top kicker I run into this bull$h!t......AA: Well what can I do, good for him bad for me.....K6: No freaking way would I have thought of k6, who raises with k6 after playing so tight and folding so much??? WTF....................KQ now this is the hand that I thought I was really against because in most cases a lot of guys raise with KQ which to me isnt really a bad play....That was my line of thought process during the hand......
Now for the shoving and not calling part....he was betting big, so I was either going to fold or shove in all honesty....I don't think calling makes sense in such a situation......
 
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Adjust when you are playing poker, go all in with 2 pairs or better (you want to put your chips in good, no ? ) loose players sometimes can win( it's ok ..) when you are playing with LAG or fish be more tighty, reraise with AK in any position ( in my opinion) to get value, fold to a 4bet if a NIT does it .

So are you saying if I don't hit two pair that I should go ALLIN? If I have AK and a guy is being aggressive and lets say the flop come K 7 2 rainbow and he shoves???....mmm...what would you do??
Yes I definitely agree with the reraise with AK in any position part now if I run in AA or KK, well thats poker but I should definitely adjust and be waaay more aggressive with it after all I see guys shoving and winning big pots with AJ's and A10's... Think I am doing poorly at the cash games because I take way less chances in them whereas in tournaments that AK would've been an INSTA-SHOVE with no cares given and I tend to excel in tourneys....

Question what hand ranges do you (personally) call a NIT with??
 
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To me AK is a hand that I overly bet high with too, but I am a mostly a tournament player, so I would be a bit weerie about playing it like I do in a tournament I would for to a 3 bet and defo fold to a four bet unless I have notes on him/her
 
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freestocks

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I have overplayed AK many times about 50/50 results winning or losing a lot.
 
leshausa03

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As the saying goes - AK - this is a very good hand but it is almost never wins. I usually go аllin to minimize the chances of rivals
 
demibar

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Yea on the flop there only a few that could have had me beat....If he had KK 66 QQ, KQ, AA or of course AK would give me a split........66: I seriously doubted, KK: I thought, wooow the one time I have top pair top kicker I run into this bull$h!t......AA: Well what can I do, good for him bad for me.....K6: No freaking way would I have thought of k6, who raises with k6 after playing so tight and folding so much??? WTF....................KQ now this is the hand that I thought I was really against because in most cases a lot of guys raise with KQ which to me isnt really a bad play....That was my line of thought process during the hand......
Now for the shoving and not calling part....he was betting big, so I was either going to fold or shove in all honesty....I don't think calling makes sense in such a situation......
Yeah K6 you fold that hand but some players with A and K in any kicker they call when the bet is small ofcourse K6 is crazy call after raise ..anyway that reraise on flop was the fact you could play less aggressive i understand AK its very good hand specially when on the flop is K you wanted double your money with that all in or make your opponent fold ...bad luck. :(
 
jarre1977

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Allmost every time I hade AK I play All in!!! I just lose that so many times, but I just try and try!!! I´m suck!!!
 
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i think this is the classic flip.
ak usualy good anyways
 
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leandr0s

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mainly its better to 3bet with AK to avoid such situations or simply for value. But still when you decide to play it tricky (smooth calling) there really isnt much value in raising. You only get called by aces or 2pair+... maybe you only get value from KJ or K10 at that moment. If theres a dry board then maybe it is better to raise but still 5betting with TPTK is -EV. Never go broke on one-pair. Even if its top pair top kicker
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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I would never just shove AK all in pre. Realistically what hands can you expect to dominate?
 
Rastaiza92

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raise x3, or all in depending on the players
 
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Preflop always re raise AK against loose player.On the flop you should be more careful cause villain might flop a set etc or in this situation two pairs..
 
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I would never just shove AK all in pre. Realistically what hands can you expect to dominate?
ummmm........What about any hand apart from AA or KK...Sorry if you never EVER shove AK I don't think you are playing poker....Shall we sit all day and wait for pocket Kings and pocket Aces? ...
 
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Yeah K6 you fold that hand but some players with A and K in any kicker they call when the bet is small ofcourse K6 is crazy call after raise ..anyway that reraise on flop was the fact you could play less aggressive i understand AK its very good hand specially when on the flop is K you wanted double your money with that all in or make your opponent fold ...bad luck. :(
I think so too @bad luck, although I played the hand awful...judging at how awful villain plays too if he had say a hand like K10 or KJ, i reckon he would've played the hand the same and i'd have won with the AK and would be over here with a brag thread rather than this one ;)
 
dj11

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Remember that the derivation of the word Poker is from the French poque, which somehow has a meaning of 'the bluff'.
 
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Preflop always re raise AK against loose player.On the flop you should be more careful cause villain might flop a set etc or in this situation two pairs..
Agree with always re raise part but I don't quite understand the after the flop 'more careful part' because in NL if the villain is being the aggressor and betting huge where it is quite obvious it will be for most of your stack it seems logical for you to either COMMIT or FOLD unless by being more careful you mean to 're-reaise preflop, get called, hit top pair/top kicker, bet, get a big raise from villain, and then fold?' in this case what would have been the point of calling/raising the flop initially (if you are gonna HIT and FOLD)?
 
es530

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Well, as I've talked here on the forum, I consider poker a complex game. But in the case of a cash game because bog down the entire stack with just a couple? then you can say, but it is the best couple and best kicker, but it remains a vulnerable hand.
 
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Well, as I've talked here on the forum, I consider poker a complex game. But in the case of a cash game because bog down the entire stack with just a couple? then you can say, but it is the best couple and best kicker, but it remains a vulnerable hand.
Tell me the hand that isn't a vulnerable hand in poker?? What Hand do you payoff with??
 
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So... I think you are looking at poker a bit myopically.


You're asking "how do I play AK", and the question should be "how do I adjust my play for AK"? Right?

First - recognize that AK is never behind even a tight player's opening range. The hand combos of a tight player are primarily AT+, KQ, KJs, QJs and pocket pairs. So you're dominating ALL of a tight opener's non-paired holdings, except QJ. You're not far behind all of your opponent's paired range, except AA and KK, of which you are blocking combos.

So, default by assuming you are ahead. It's never really a mistake to raise when you are ahead. The only mistake is if you are missing value. And this is where you can decide to raise or call. But understand you are making your move FOR VALUE. You actually want to keep hands like K6 in the pot, because you can pick up the hand c-betting most flops, and get very good implied odds when the King connects. The times that your opponent hits 2 pair while dominated are very slim and you have to recognize this is extremely unlikely. Because if your opponent has K6, he also can have K5, K7, K8, K9, KT, KJ, KQ, probably any suited K. Only two of those hands beat you, everything else pays you off.

When the flop comes K Q 6 RAINBOW (that's very important):

We now re-asses our ranges, and this is subject. Everyone plays the flop differently, and you have to make your best guesses about how your opponent plays hands that are likely behind, hands that are maybe behind, hands that have fair showdown value, hands that are likely ahead, hands that are almost always ahead.

So, this is actually a great board for AK. Because the majority of his range has showdown value AND is behind you. AQ, KJ, QJ all have value. AJ and AT has an over and a gut shot to the straight. The only hands in a tight players value range to smash this are the unlikely AA, and the very unlikely QQ and KK; and possibly KQ. SO - if your opponent has a value hand, it's more likely you are against one that is behind and somewhat unlikely to improve.

Better still: IF your opponent can have K6 here, that puts EVERY OTHER KING in his range, which means you are CRUSHING your opponent's value range.


NOW - the villain leads out. So we are happy, because our hand is ahead of his range. Things get fishy when you raise in position. You have to ask yourself - what will my opponent call, out of position, that I beat? If you don't raise very often, that's going to suck a lot of bluffs out of your range - so your opponent is LESS likely to hold onto KT, or AQ, right? Also - there's no flush possibilities out on the board which removes a chunk of your semi-bluffs. Rainbow flop.

So when you raise, unless you are against a player who is likely to hold onto top or middle pair by putting you on something like TJ, you are going to fold out worse hands, and get called or raised by better. So I think YOUR FIRST LEAK is making a polarizing raise without weighing it against your opponent's tendencies.

Now, since you DID raise - your opponent re-raises you. It's very unlikely that top pair top kicker is going to be good here. You should assume you are behind and looking to improve. I think many players won't even re-raise 2pair here, that's a fairly loose 3-ball OOP.... maybe KQ that puts you on the same hand and is looking to fold a chop.. but I'd say 2pair is the low end of his range. On these stakes, I think TJ is very unlikely, because very few players ever raise-fold on the flop. So I'd say you are pretty much ONLY against 66, QQ, KQ in this spot... and K6/Q6 is only that rare wtf hand. But it's kind of irrelevant. Because the hands that you beat are basically out of most player's range at this point.

LEAK #2 - you shoved. You are never ever ever getting called by worse here. And you are probably never folding out better. Only in the weirdly rare case that your opponent had K6 is a fold even possible... and notice that he tanked called. Your opponent is simply weighing the possibility that you are overplaying your hand against the the odds that you have KQ (most likely) or slow played QQ pre-flop (unlikely). Your opponent is thinking... the only value hand that makes sense for your line is KQ, and I'm blocking a lot of those combos. Maybe you are overplaying AK?

Shoving this spot requires knowing a ton of information about your opponent before even considering it.





All that to say... your leak is that you overplayed your hand post flop, not that you underplayed your hand pre-flop.
 
es530

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Tell me the hand that isn't a vulnerable hand in poker?? What Hand do you payoff with??

No need to answer anything because the question is not that. I realized that this hand was played just looking to his own strength, without procupar with the hand that was facing. This is not the criticism is exactly what I realized. Now it is advisable when you have a strong hand to re-raise, increases ever. By doing this the tendency is for weaker hands fold .I did not see the hand in question in full, but pre-flop, if you played this way ok, fine. Now, the complexity of the game is presented in the later streets, you know how he plays? Play accordingly. you have no idea yet, do not commit your entire stack.
 
J

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So... I think you are looking at poker a bit myopically.


You're asking "how do I play AK", and the question should be "how do I adjust my play for AK"? Right?

First - recognize that AK is never behind even a tight player's opening range. The hand combos of a tight player are primarily AT+, KQ, KJs, QJs and pocket pairs. So you're dominating ALL of a tight opener's non-paired holdings, except QJ. You're not far behind all of your opponent's paired range, except AA and KK, of which you are blocking combos.

So, default by assuming you are ahead. It's never really a mistake to raise when you are ahead. The only mistake is if you are missing value. And this is where you can decide to raise or call. But understand you are making your move FOR VALUE. You actually want to keep hands like K6 in the pot, because you can pick up the hand c-betting most flops, and get very good implied odds when the King connects. The times that your opponent hits 2 pair while dominated are very slim and you have to recognize this is extremely unlikely. Because if your opponent has K6, he also can have K5, K7, K8, K9, KT, KJ, KQ, probably any suited K. Only two of those hands beat you, everything else pays you off.

When the flop comes K Q 6 RAINBOW (that's very important):

We now re-asses our ranges, and this is subject. Everyone plays the flop differently, and you have to make your best guesses about how your opponent plays hands that are likely behind, hands that are maybe behind, hands that have fair showdown value, hands that are likely ahead, hands that are almost always ahead.

So, this is actually a great board for AK. Because the majority of his range has showdown value AND is behind you. AQ, KJ, QJ all have value. AJ and AT has an over and a gut shot to the straight. The only hands in a tight players value range to smash this are the unlikely AA, and the very unlikely QQ and KK; and possibly KQ. SO - if your opponent has a value hand, it's more likely you are against one that is behind and somewhat unlikely to improve.

Better still: IF your opponent can have K6 here, that puts EVERY OTHER KING in his range, which means you are CRUSHING your opponent's value range.


NOW - the villain leads out. So we are happy, because our hand is ahead of his range. Things get fishy when you raise in position. You have to ask yourself - what will my opponent call, out of position, that I beat? If you don't raise very often, that's going to suck a lot of bluffs out of your range - so your opponent is LESS likely to hold onto KT, or AQ, right? Also - there's no flush possibilities out on the board which removes a chunk of your semi-bluffs. Rainbow flop.

So when you raise, unless you are against a player who is likely to hold onto top or middle pair by putting you on something like TJ, you are going to fold out worse hands, and get called or raised by better. So I think YOUR FIRST LEAK is making a polarizing raise without weighing it against your opponent's tendencies.

Now, since you DID raise - your opponent re-raises you. It's very unlikely that top pair top kicker is going to be good here. You should assume you are behind and looking to improve. I think many players won't even re-raise 2pair here, that's a fairly loose 3-ball OOP.... maybe KQ that puts you on the same hand and is looking to fold a chop.. but I'd say 2pair is the low end of his range. On these stakes, I think TJ is very unlikely, because very few players ever raise-fold on the flop. So I'd say you are pretty much ONLY against 66, QQ, KQ in this spot... and K6/Q6 is only that rare wtf hand. But it's kind of irrelevant. Because the hands that you beat are basically out of most player's range at this point.

LEAK #2 - you shoved. You are never ever ever getting called by worse here. And you are probably never folding out better. Only in the weirdly rare case that your opponent had K6 is a fold even possible... and notice that he tanked called. Your opponent is simply weighing the possibility that you are overplaying your hand against the the odds that you have KQ (most likely) or slow played QQ pre-flop (unlikely). Your opponent is thinking... the only value hand that makes sense for your line is KQ, and I'm blocking a lot of those combos. Maybe you are overplaying AK?

Shoving this spot requires knowing a ton of information about your opponent before even considering it.





All that to say... your leak is that you overplayed your hand post flop, not that you underplayed your hand pre-flop.

Great answer ....This is perfect, very thorough and well explained....exactly the kind of insight I was looking for.... Thank You.
 
J

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No need to answer anything because the question is not that. I realized that this hand was played just looking to his own strength, without procupar with the hand that was facing. This is not the criticism is exactly what I realized. Now it is advisable when you have a strong hand to re-raise, increases ever. By doing this the tendency is for weaker hands fold .I did not see the hand in question in full, but pre-flop, if you played this way ok, fine. Now, the complexity of the game is presented in the later streets, you know how he plays? Play accordingly. you have no idea yet, do not commit your entire stack.
True......guess I watch two much TV poker and went all 'Durrrrr' on him just not as lucky lol..... agree to not commit entire stack... great advice for next time.
 
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