AK, AA: raise or limp?

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OniGamer

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So these are hands that really bother me. I always do a small raise when I hit one, sometimes it gets called and sometimes it doesnt, sometimes (fingers crossed) I even get re-raised.
It is really frustrating when you get one of these hands and only win the blinds. Figuring I win blinds all the time with way less then that, and sometimes simply by doing nothing at all (everyone folds) so when I only get the blinds off of AK I wonder if I'm not milking the full value.
Also, my reasoning for typically doing a small raise with this hand is that I don't want to end up having three people in there with me when the flop goes down.

So what do you guys think? Keep playing it the way I do, or limp in with a call?
 
micromachine

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You don't want to be limping with these hands because

1) It encourages further limping and you don't want to be playing AA in multiway pots.
2) It will be hard to build a large pot post-flop without a preflop raise.

It is frustrating to only win the blinds with AA but better that than limping and paying off when someone else who limped in hits 2 pair with J3.

Don't raise small either ! Raise at least 3X BB in cash games.
 
absoluthamm

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Don't be a limptard, raise it up. This is probably one of the biggest reasons people complain and yell "rigged" because they limp with their AA and lose when 7 other player limp behind and they lose to 94o when they should have been "destined to win"
 
JDAWG5

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You don't want to be limping with these hands because

1) It encourages further limping and you don't want to be playing AA in multiway pots.
2) It will be hard to build a large pot post-flop without a preflop raise.

It is frustrating to only win the blinds with AA but better that than limping and paying off when someone else who limped in hits 2 pair with J3.

Don't raise small either ! Raise at least 3X BB in cash games.

Don't be a limptard, raise it up. This is probably one of the biggest reasons people complain and yell "rigged" because they limp with their AA and lose when 7 other player limp behind and they lose to 94o when they should have been "destined to win"

Exactly. These guys nailed it.
 
MediaBLITZ

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You need to get it out of your head that your monster hands need to see action at the cost of playing smart poker.

You will make your big money with AA by going up against lesser monsters - KK, QQ, AK, JJ, etc. You lose big money with AA going up against "Ace Busters".

You are fishing - throw out big bait and you catch big fish. Throw out little bait and you attract a bunch of smaller fish, aka "Ace Busters" - guys with suited connectors, small pairs, flush and straight draws, etc that can cause trouble for you. The more there are of them the greater the chance that you are screwed.

You have to remember, you only have two outs that will improve your hand that wouldn't also improve another guys hand (like if KK3 were on the flop and one of those little fish came in with KJ - you improved to a monster two pair, BUT...)

Let's say you let those little hands in - if they don't hit the flop pretty big (two pair, set, trips, draws) you will most likely not get another dime off them. But if they did hit - you are in trouble.
So chase the little fish away and hope to catch a big one. If you don't then don't feel like you wasted an opportunity - feel like there was just nothing to catch that time and keep on playing waiting for the next opportunity.

Ideal situation? Your AA versus AK. If you can catch that you might be able to felt the guy
 
kidkvno1

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Always raise, you will lose alot more by not raising.
 
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OniGamer

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Thanks for the advice guys, very helpful. I guess I have been looking at it the wrong way this hole time.

Also, how about in a short handed game? Say, only 6 people at the table? Still do a 3-bet or lower it to a 2 or min-raise?
 
ovitoo

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Thanks for the advice guys, very helpful. I guess I have been looking at it the wrong way this hole time.

Also, how about in a short handed game? Say, only 6 people at the table? Still do a 3-bet or lower it to a 2 or min-raise?
I would say short handed its even more important to raise. If you're worried about disquising the fact that you have aces they can still be played for value without limping. Best way to ensure this is to keep your opening raises consistent. Dont 5x raise when you been 3x raising other hands all game. Limping aces is never recommended but I have used it successfully on a few occassions. The object of the AA limp (which of course was in very early position..NEVER late) is to get any other player to pump up the pot. If this doesn't happen then you can't mind losing 1bb with AA. NEVER LIMP ACES IF YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO FOLD THEM. If you limp and there is no raise, you lose the option to bet seeing as how it's not possible to put the blinds on a hand. Hope it helps.
 
ovitoo

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EDIT: I should have mentioned I'm sng/mtt player. Tournaments are the only game I've ever limped AA and its always in early position with an aggro table. It would only be effective (if at all) in a tourney because its players are more likely to steal from blinds & limpers. I would never limp in a cash game. EVER.

Also never min raise as any bust hand that opens just gets a better price to draw out. It wont tell you the strength of their hand because hands that are already in the pot are almost required to stay in for min raise.
 
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micromachine

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Thanks for the advice guys, very helpful. I guess I have been looking at it the wrong way this hole time.

Also, how about in a short handed game? Say, only 6 people at the table? Still do a 3-bet or lower it to a 2 or min-raise?

In 6max cash games you want to raise your premiums at least 3x the BB. Forget about min-raising. As long as you never limp and are raising plenty of other hands too, then it won't be obvious that you have a monster.

If someone raises before you then you should mostly be 3betting your premiums.
 
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Raise.
I myself raise the hell out of them every time. It is not frustrating to win only the blinds with aces.
If there is a raiser before you, you should 3-betting.
Be agressive like hell and do not let anyone to catch up.
I saw houondreds like you "trapping" and getting their but kicked by 2 pairs or a set.
You need a maniac on your left so that a limp/minraising to be a trap. But overall you do not want maniacs on your left because you do not get aces every hand.
You do not want ppl to read your heand. Than never limp. Raise and raise again . If you see a reason to raise than raise. Do not limp for god sake. Trust me. Limpers are loosing players. For good players limpers are like printing money machine. Dustyy Schmidth said about limpers something like "if you see money thrown on the ground , don't you stop to colect them?"

Lots of ppl are afraid to raise because they are bad after the flop. They need to see something . I think 99 percent of players out there only know about starting hands. Well , after the flop is the place where the big money are.
You said something about tournaments. Maybe freerolls. Once you are over 5$ SNGs this kind of traps do not work anymore and the regs will take notes on you.
 
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Nathan Williams

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Always raise it up big preflop or re-raise. These are extremely strong hands. Limping and calling or something of the sort is

1) Passive poker. Aggression and intiiative is how you succeed in poker.
2) A very suboptimal way to play an extremely strong hand.
 
BigCountryAA

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Raise. I used to pull the slow roll when I first started and I'm pretty sure it cost me more then it made me. I want my hand to have the highest percentage chance at winning. When 4 or 5 people all get to see a flop it's a good chance you are now behind.
 
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I haven't been playing long but from my little experience re raising works better bc you drive out bs and make ppl think about whether or not they will call your raise. I like pocket aces but I'd rather get the blinds than lose all my chips on one hand. It's greedy to try to milk the pot and it doesn't always work in your favor. Think about it. Pre flop it's the best hand but it's still only one pair if you get called by AK for instance, it's possible for them to get a straight and beat you even though you set the flop so it's important to know when to fold them too. Someone please quote and correct me if I'm wrong. You're experience might be more valuable but I'd also like to know if my thinking is wrong as well.
 
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jordanbillie

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Seriously, is this thread from 2006?
 
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raise. slowplaying lets players draw. better to win a small pot than to lose a large one
 
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raise. Especially if its going to keep people limping in with 88 or something stupid that will end up hitting a set and beating your AK or KK. Id jam the pot if I hit the flop unless I was UTG then I might slow play at first but would raise it to three or 4 bets if I hit the flop
 
4thandinches

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With AA, you want as many chips in the pot before the flop, and preferably all-in. Who cares if you scare everyone away by raising too much? It is much better than letting people see flops cheaply and hitting their junk hands or tripping their small pairs. Getting cute with AA will lose you a lot more money in the long run than playing it overly aggrsssive pre-flop.
And even when playing heads-up, I don't like being cute with AA pre-flop unless someone is overly aggressive and trying to buy most pots. The thing to remember is it is easy to get away from pocket 3s when you miss the flop, but not so much with AA. You have NO idea where you stand.
 
TEG2300

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Why would you vary the raise by strength of hand doesn't that just give info?
I vary raise by position in some games but really never by strength of stating hand. Okay one exception being if some one is crazy maniacking or steaming and spewing I may try some hideous over-bet to induce but those are really case specific.

Oh and BTW if you have had the privilege of me donking off chips to you then you know I totally don't play like this at all. Sure I know some of the right moves but when I am at the table you may as well color my hair blue and give me a menthol 100 cigarette because it is time to play BINGO BABY!!!
 
Nathan Williams

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RAISE! RAISE! RAISE!

Always raise

Raise.
I myself raise the hell out of them every time.

Always raise it up big preflop or re-raise.




So much controversy in this thread! By the way, raise. :D
 
gus201

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I would have to state it would depend on the players at the table and your position . With players behind you will they raise if you limp ? How aggressive is the table , or does the able limp ? what type of hands are the players at the table playing ?

Are the players playing abc poker or is any of the trapping and with what ? I think this is just little spectrum of information needed to even come close to being accurate to answer this question .

As you stated you make a small raise with your big hands and what make a big raise with the medium or drawing hands ? Seems to me your becoming predictable and telling every one what you value for big hands . keep your bets preflop the same 3x the big blind , or if your reraising then 3 or 4 times the raise if your stack can handle it .

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth not much but enough to make ya think I hope :) good luck gus201
 
A2345Razz

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One of the best reasons for raising is it balances your preflop raising range so youll be able to be raising not so premium hands as well (say a 67ss in the Cut off or OTB) and not be able to be read easily.

You want to be raising most every pot you play...and if you limp premiums and im assuming discard less than premiums and only raise 99-QQ and AK KQ KJ...etc. people can catch on fairly quickly to your betting patterns.

For instance, if I see an otherwise tight beginning type player limp UTG in a cash game my spidey senses are immediately tingling that they may be slowplaying a big pair or AK.
 
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