advice on check-raise bluff

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cracksniper

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Just thought I'd ask about this as it is something I feel is missing from my game. I will usually only check-raise if I have hit big, but I read an article the other day on Phil Ivey...it showed a graph in which he check-raised far more than other pro' players obviously not always with a hand. I would like to know if other's use this move often and what type of flops would make this possible?
I know that you have to have an idea on the opponent but I'd like to experiment with this to improve my game...thanks all again the sniper, p.s. I know I havn't given any specific hands or such I just want to know the members' thoughts and ideas.
 
farhanshah

farhanshah

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I think a check-raise bluff depends a lot on your image as well as what you think your opponent might be holding. Sometimes, I do it if the person has a high cbet percentage just to see where I stand in the hand.

Most of the time though, I do a check-raise semi bluff if I have some kind of drawing hand. I believe though that Phil Ivey operates on a way higher level than any of us. He probably is taking a lot of factors into play before he decides to make such a move.
 
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only_bridge

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Its often safer to check-call the flop, and steal on the turn.
That way you risk less.
If you check-raise as a complete bluff the pot will quickly get big. And you might eventually end up risking way more than was intended.
 
okeedokalee

okeedokalee

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Agree with only_bridge the flop would be to early and obvious.With the hand you are representing scaring a customer away would be silly.

Save the CRB for the turn and give your customer a less obvious conundrum.:willy:
 
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cracksniper

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great answers lads i really appreciate this site, I like both ideas a) the semi-bluff and b) keeping it until the turn it's just I want to expand my game moves as I don't think you can win a tourney these days without these type of moves do you have any others that you would recommend?
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

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great answers lads i really appreciate this site, I like both ideas a) the semi-bluff and b) keeping it until the turn it's just I want to expand my game moves as I don't think you can win a tourney these days without these type of moves do you have any others that you would recommend?

Float the flop of a drawy board (8h 9d 7h for example) and raise, c/r the turn if any possible draws complete.
 
blueskies

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True. If I feel like a guy is bluffing. I usually call the flop bet then lead out with a bet on the turn. Works better. If I check raise on the flop, the other guy usually calls. And I will need to bet even bigger on the turn... risking losing more if he's legit.
 
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atownshend

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I think a check-raise bluff depends a lot on your image as well as what you think your opponent might be holding. Sometimes, I do it if the person has a high cbet percentage just to see where I stand in the hand.

Most of the time though, I do a check-raise semi bluff if I have some kind of drawing hand. I believe though that Phil Ivey operates on a way higher level than any of us. He probably is taking a lot of factors into play before he decides to make such a move.

I think farhanshah is on to somehthing here. This type of play keeps players who consistantly c - bet with miss flops (who will be raising with a wide range of hands) honest.

The fancy plays you see the professional use only work when you mastered all the other skills. If you don't have the skills and reputation Phil has, you may find too much check raising may impact on your bottom line.
 
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cracksniper

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Once again great answers guys, it must be something that interests a lot of posters. In my case it's because sometimes it seems that I go card dead in the middle of a tourney and if you cannot play a hand the blinds quickly eat you up.
I think maybe a combination of check call the flop and then check raise on the turn if a flush or straight draw hits would be a good thing also, at what point would making these moves be a good idea? If I,m well chipped up then bluffing to me is not so necessary i.e. how many big blinds before starting to make moves?
I do quite like the squeeze play if I'm on the button and several limpers are in an all in bet usually scares them off but I think I do this if I have between 15-20 bb's, what about you guys? The sniper...
 
salim271

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I don't bother with check raise bluffs... I don't think you can win with them at a microstakes level, because people (if they arent terrible) are usually playing ABC poker and will only bet if they have a hand. At Phil Ivey's level, any bet could easily be a bluff, so a check raise bluff is much more profitable. The only time I'm ever check raising is with the nuts, or as close to the nuts as possible.

As for going card dead in the middle of a tourney, you shouldnt be bluffing in the middle of hands to take down pots, you should be bluffing at the beginning preflop and from position. You should be constantly checking your M (The number of table rotations until your blinded out), how close the bubble is, and how the other players are playing.

You should do your best not to raise with nothing, but I think its better to be bluffing a medium stacked tight player in the BB with something like 78o and chancing the fact that be might turn over pocket kings or queens than to simply get blinded off and lose fold equity.

Maybe some people wont agree, but I think its best to keep it simple near the bubble, there's less of a chance of something going wrong such as if you're bluffing in the middle of the hand, and your opponent turns over something A9o... something he would have folded preflop if you shoved all in then with K10o...
 
TheOne2Watch

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I love check raising with a monster. If they call they usually are pissed. If they don't call I love showing it to them and keep them guessing for future hands. By the way, no one can understand what goes on Phil Ivey's head. The man is a machine that has a reputation that follows him to every table he is at. So you can not do what he does because you do not have his reputation on the felt.
 
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only_bridge

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great answers lads i really appreciate this site, I like both ideas a) the semi-bluff and b) keeping it until the turn it's just I want to expand my game moves as I don't think you can win a tourney these days without these type of moves do you have any others that you would recommend?

Only bluff bluffable people, and make sure you are telling the story of a good hand when you bluff.
 
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aprig

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Agree with only_bridge the flop would be to early and obvious.With the hand you are representing scaring a customer away would be silly.

Save the CRB for the turn and give your customer a less obvious conundrum.:willy:
Good point sir.
 
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