Aces early

SofaKingCrazy

SofaKingCrazy

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I'm in the middle of one of life's curve balls and have been working on rebuilding my truck for the last month so not much poker but just like many of you I still think about it. This is a hypothetical situation but feel it could lead to some good input.

Lets say we have AA in early position in a STT (9man) with 6 left and 3 is ITM.

For me I don't want to shove here or overbet but instead raise good with hopes of getting a call or two. Lets say for example I open 3x and called by button and BB.

Flop comes nasty, either straight possible or flush possible such as TJK or all suited. I lead out with a c-bet and one of our callers shoves and the other folds in either order.

Should we just assume we have lost this hand or call the shove? Against two opponents we will win 70% of the time and just because we might be behind now after the flop our 70% could still come by the river. If we only have one caller preflop we will win 85% of the time which to me makes folding here even harder. Is this where discipline comes into play?

I tend to call most of the time in this kind of situation knowing most likely I'm behind and can't say for sure that any of the times I have it was a flop as bad as I have described here. I could be just hard headed but I feel with 70-85% odds in favor pre I shouldn't let 60% of the board tell me to fold when I could still win. Especially when the end result is the same as if I had shoved pre and was called, which is always considered to be a +EV play.

Thoughts?
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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I'm in the middle of one of life's curve balls and have been working on rebuilding my truck for the last month so not much poker but just like many of you I still think about it. This is a hypothetical situation but feel it could lead to some good input.

Lets say we have AA in early position in a STT (9man) with 6 left and 3 is ITM.

For me I don't want to shove here or overbet but instead raise good with hopes of getting a call or two. Lets say for example I open 3x and called by button and BB.

Flop comes nasty, either straight possible or flush possible such as TJK or all suited. I lead out with a c-bet and one of our callers shoves and the other folds in either order.

Should we just assume we have lost this hand or call the shove? Against two opponents we will win 70% of the time and just because we might be behind now after the flop our 70% could still come by the river. If we only have one caller preflop we will win 85% of the time which to me makes folding here even harder. Is this where discipline comes into play?

I tend to call most of the time in this kind of situation knowing most likely I'm behind and can't say for sure that any of the times I have it was a flop as bad as I have described here. I could be just hard headed but I feel with 70-85% odds in favor pre I shouldn't let 60% of the board tell me to fold when I could still win. Especially when the end result is the same as if I had shoved pre and was called, which is always considered to be a +EV play.

Thoughts?

its a tough one for sure, you wanna shove but with a scary board its abit risky....the button could be calling with pocket pairs or Axs or suited connectors and the same is true for the bb....if they shove then it looks strong, like their straight flopped, but i dont know, i dont know all the percentages, i suppose you would have to go on your gut instinct or do the math to whether its worth it or not...sorry for noob reply
 
MadMaddie

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alot depends on the sizes of the stacks and the types of players on the table.
 
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BomTombadil

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I think in general someone who flopped the flush or the straight would raise a smaller amount rather than shoving. I'd probably call much of the time. Like MadMaddie said, it really would depend a lot on stack sizes and how the opponents have been playing. If it's a live game I'd try to get a read on how comfortable the guy who shoved looked.
 
dudemanstan

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I'm not folding AA , I don't care what is on the flop, if I get beat Oh well I get beat here, But folding AA is just something I can never do, and i will just have to live with consequences.
 
Propane Goat

Propane Goat

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Would their bet sizing give away the fact that they don't have the nuts?

I've been starting to pay attention to this because I've noticed often that some people will make a ridiculously huge shove with a very large stack in relation to the pot size post flop, and it usually gets a fold but sometimes somebody will call and the person who pushed all in will only have bottom pair or a draw.

It seems like if you had the nuts you would want to bet for value rather than scaring people off of the pot, I'm not sure how to read these situations in the micros because I also see people jamming all in with the nuts, bottom pair, or nothing at all. I have also shoved all-in post flop when I have connected with the flop but it's weak, in situations where I feel that if I allow the hand to continue that the villain will pick up something that he won't let go of and I will wind up losing a showdown.

If the raise or shove is way over the top, do you think it's more likely to be a bluff or semi-bluff?
 
A

AvaloNNN

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I'm not folding AA , I don't care what is on the flop, if I get beat Oh well I get beat here, But folding AA is just something I can never do, and i will just have to live with consequences.
Are you serious? If yes, you have much to learn my young padawan.
 
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