A situation where folding the nuts is the right choice.

Thinker_145

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Can you think of a situation where you have the absolute nuts on the flop/turn but if you could see your opponent's cards you would fold to a big bet and it would be perfectly logical to do that?

I am just wondering how many people can figure this out.
 
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redwards92

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If you ever fold the absolute nuts in any spot then you are not playing winning poker imo

whether you are being freerolled or not you gotta get it in

also the chopped pots vs loss in rake just doesn't happen often enough for it to be a losing call when you have the nuts
 
TeUnit

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u miss clicked in a don preflop with a super shorty about to hit blinds next hand
 
duggs

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you have AKdd on a QJ10cc board. button shoves 100000bb showing TT and CO calls having you covered and shows AKcc, we have 1000000bb behind effective
 
pistolpetewags11

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Here is when I might fold the absolute nuts. It would be on the flop, if it was an early stage of a deep tournament and you were pushed all in.

Maybe something like;
23 on a A45 board. The 4 and 5 are hearts. You have no hearts and you see your opponents cards and he has 5 6 of hearts.

On the flop I would consider folding. If the turn came a blank, I would not be able to fold with 1 card to come.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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If you ever fold the absolute nuts in any spot then you are not playing winning poker imo

whether you are being freerolled or not you gotta get it in

also the chopped pots vs loss in rake just doesn't happen often enough for it to be a losing call when you have the nuts
+1, If you have the absolute nuts then you can't lose, current nuts a different story but either way no one is going to fold the nuts for fear of what's to come and if you are then your playing with SCARED MONEY and we all know this is a bad idea to do playing poker.
 
duggs

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+1, If you have the absolute nuts then you can't lose, current nuts a different story but either way no one is going to fold the nuts for fear of what's to come and if you are then your playing with SCARED MONEY and we all know this is a bad idea to do playing poker.

think mine is realistic tbh
 
hackmeplz

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you have AKdd on a QJ10cc board. button shoves 100000bb showing TT and CO calls having you covered and shows AKcc, we have 1000000bb behind effective

The TT doesn't even have to be there. At some point it becomes a mistake to stack AKdd on a QJTcc board vs. AKcc.
 
duggs

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The TT doesn't even have to be there. At some point it becomes a mistake to stack AKdd on a QJTcc board vs. AKcc.

yea agree, just wanted to make it extra redic
 
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loomis311

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I would never fold the nuts. As long as I am a favorite I am willing to put in all my money. I am just talking about holdem. In omaha I believe it is different. There are situations where you are ahead on the flop, but can still be a statistical underdog because of the board and opponents hand.
 
Thinker_145

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Nobody figured it out it seems. I assume the absolute nuts means the current nuts if not then I am sorry I meant the nuts on the flop/turn but not a hand that cant possibly be improved upon obviously. Why would I even mean that?

Anyways nobody who knows poker is actually ever going to fold in that situation that I am talking about that's why I said "if" you could see your opponent's cards. Can someone figure it out now? ;)
 
duggs

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Nobody figured it out it seems. I assume the absolute nuts means the current nuts if not then I am sorry I meant the nuts on the flop/turn but not a hand that cant possibly be improved upon obviously. Why would I even mean that?

Anyways nobody who knows poker is actually ever going to fold in that situation that I am talking about that's why I said "if" you could see your opponent's cards. Can someone figure it out now? ;)

spit it out,
 
Thinker_145

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you have AKdd on a QJ10cc board. button shoves 100000bb showing TT and CO calls having you covered and shows AKcc, we have 1000000bb behind effective
Okay sorry you did figure it out this was exactly what I was talking about. :)
 
Thinker_145

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Basically its having the nut straight on the flop but your opponent also has the nut straight WITH a flush draw. So despite having the nuts you are in a very bad shape.
 
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Sure there is a time where folding absolute nuts is wise. If you are on the bubble and have a nut str8 with 2 cards suited on the board it could be a very wise time to dump the best hand. Especially in a double or nothing SNG. Sadly I haven't always been wise.
 
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You don't need to be up against the same hand that's also freerolling with a flush draw, either. QJhh is a favourite versus J8ss on a 9hTh7d flop.
 
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redwards92

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Ohh I didn't even realize you said if you could see their cards.

Either way I probably won't ever fold the nuts, I'm just not that good.
 
dmorris68

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Sure there is a time where folding absolute nuts is wise.
You guys need to get the lingo right. It is never correct to fold the "absolute" nuts unless you like to burn money, or have some weird metagame thing going. Like maybe there's an uber whale on tilt who you just know will get up and leave the table if he loses one more pot, but will hang around awhile and buy-in again if you let him have this one (that's a stretch, but hey I'm reaching). Or maybe you just want to let your girlfriend win because there are "bonuses" to earn later. ;)

Absolute nuts is not current nuts. Absolute nuts cannot be beaten no matter what cards come. Current nuts means its only the nuts now with the cards known, but could become castrated (swidt?) on future streets.
 
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I would never fold the nuts. As long as I am a favorite I am willing to put in all my money. I am just talking about holdem. In omaha I believe it is different. There are situations where you are ahead on the flop, but can still be a statistical underdog because of the board and opponents hand.
I agree with this also. I dont think you can fold the nuts on board in HE,, the point is to win so why fold best hand really, u have to take your chances there. But is true in Omaha, it is still possible to be behind and lose, especially if there are lot of possibilities to come on board and more than 1 person still in pot with u.
 
dmorris68

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Absolute nuts is not current nuts. Absolute nuts cannot be beaten no matter what cards come. Current nuts means its only the nuts now with the cards known, but could become castrated (swidt?) on future streets.
Rereading that it might come across like I'm advocating folding the current nuts vs the absolute nuts, which I think the OP was getting at.

Not true.

Until the chips are essentially all in, I might find a fold on a later street if the nuttiness of the situation changes. But if I can get the money in now while I have the nuts at this moment in time, I have a hard time coming up with a situation where I wouldn't be happy to do so. Remember that's like one of the fundamental theorem's of poker (to get the money in with the best hand).

Don't be results oriented, and don't play scared thinking what *might* happen. Get those thoughts out of your mind now if you have any ambitions at all about being a long-term winning player.
 
Blobweird123

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The only way I might fold is described by Duggs, we have AK on QTJmono and opp shows AK with Royal/FD. Then yes sure I can find a fold to avoid chopping and losing to rake. Otherwise, no im never folding. And as d'mo said, you're making it seem like everyone here is dumb for thinking absolute nuts means absolute nuts lol. Absolute nuts means CANNOT be beat ever, with 2 cards still to come.
 
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never right choice mathematically...... in practical game situations..

only exception might be if stack to pot ratio was huge and u had ak , and hit nut straight but flush draw on board.. so even though have nuts if only 2 bucks in pot.. and thousands behind would nevefr want to risk your opponent having the ak suited and stacking u for thousands over defending a 2 dollar pot when flop comes out...

Spr would be huge..
 
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heres a recent situation...
Sunday million,
Im on the flop holding I think 78 lets say it was 78 to be precise - 6-9-10 I have a straight current nuts. But with a flush draw out and a bigger straight draw and I know for a fact the range is J10+ I have raised, I have been re-raised by LP caller for sure I think he mostly has Like QJ, KJ, KQ
The 3rd player comes over the top all in I have to put him on a set a flush maybe an overpair - 99/1010/JJ+ all possible but also suited connectors,

Im currently at 19k in the sunday million Im accumalating chips steadily I have to dodge 4 cards 2 players 15 possible draw outs 8 for higher straight 7 for flush. plus if anyone has a set full house possibilitys I would be hugely at risk. I'm folding the nuts right here and waiting for a better spot.
 
hackmeplz

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heres a recent situation...
Sunday million,
Im on the flop holding I think 78 lets say it was 78 to be precise - 6-9-10 I have a straight current nuts. But with a flush draw out and a bigger straight draw and I know for a fact the range is J10+ I have raised, I have been re-raised by LP caller for sure I think he mostly has Like QJ, KJ, KQ
The 3rd player comes over the top all in I have to put him on a set a flush maybe an overpair - 99/1010/JJ+ all possible but also suited connectors,

Im currently at 19k in the sunday million Im accumalating chips steadily I have to dodge 4 cards 2 players 15 possible draw outs 8 for higher straight 7 for flush. plus if anyone has a set full house possibilitys I would be hugely at risk. I'm folding the nuts right here and waiting for a better spot.

no you're just playing in a tourney where you're scared money and making a -ev play.
 
duggs

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heres a recent situation...
Sunday million,
Im on the flop holding I think 78 lets say it was 78 to be precise - 6-9-10 I have a straight current nuts. But with a flush draw out and a bigger straight draw and I know for a fact the range is J10+ I have raised, I have been re-raised by LP caller for sure I think he mostly has Like QJ, KJ, KQ
The 3rd player comes over the top all in I have to put him on a set a flush maybe an overpair - 99/1010/JJ+ all possible but also suited connectors,

Im currently at 19k in the sunday million Im accumalating chips steadily I have to dodge 4 cards 2 players 15 possible draw outs 8 for higher straight 7 for flush. plus if anyone has a set full house possibilitys I would be hugely at risk. I'm folding the nuts right here and waiting for a better spot.

You should unregistered before the tournament begins
 
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