Can a fish outplay a shark?

LukeSilver · Jul 2, 2020

So earlier today on one of my tables there seemed to be this annoying player who seemed to know exactly what i had or what i was doing. the thing is that this player on sharkscope came
up as ranked 53.

this guy showed up on a few of my tables and it kept happening the guy kept following me into pots and seemed to know when I had it and when i did not and was playing almost perfectly against me specifically.

my girlfriend was watching and i was getting frustrated and said i dont get it hes a fish hes outplaying me my gf was like no hes not he cant hes a fish fish cant out play you.

then a moment of calm passed over me showing that my mental game is improving and i did something about it I changed the way i was playing and started doing weird bluffs and started destroying the guy.
I am not saying this to boast, a long time ago in my life i looked into religion and spirituality and whilst i rejected all of it and became a believer in the computer simulation hypothesis rrejecting all religion and spirituality buddhism did have something to teach me which has been something i need to evolve for my own life. and that was the destruction of the ego. this does not mean one stops been themselves or caring about themselves, some may think it means not been arrogant which it kind of does but it also means not to be low self esteem self destruction as well.

to simply think I am gods gift to poker because i make a profit and a fish cannot ever outplay me seems like the road to ruin, to have no confidence and give up on myself when things go bad seems like the road to ruin as well.

What appears correct is not to ask how good or bad I am but simply to ask what the best way to adapt to the situation is. in this case i acknowledged the guy was reading my game like a book somehow despite him been a fish and I changed what I was doing and started to reverse the situation and destroy him.

It was suspicious though how a player I have never played before seemed to know my exact game when they have fishy stats when even the best player should not be able to get reads quite that quickly.

i think the most logical explanation to that is either multi accounting or he had seen me play before against one of his friends maybe.

the thing is it did not seem to be luck or he just had it when i didnt and didnt have anything when i did, because as soon as i made changes i started destroying him with bluffs and inducing bluffs from him when he had nothing and i was strong.

so fish can sometimes outplay sharks?

Only_player · Jul 2, 2020

At poker stars, you can often see a few newcomers at the final table in big tournaments. It just so happens that the card goes and good luck on the side of the fish. Therefore, sometimes fish can overplay the shark

CptRunBad · Jul 2, 2020

Volume is where a shark separates himself from a fish. When you are making +E/V plays you will always come out on top of you play enough hands.

aditzaH8 · Jul 2, 2020

No doubt it can happen!How did the sharks become sharks in the first place!

1nsomn1a · Jul 2, 2020

You can be a fish all your life and win money, and be considered a shark sitting for months at a loss. Modern poker is like this. Just work on your game and try to win no matter what. You can be ten times stronger than your opponent and lose to him, correct your mistakes and use the mistakes of your opponents that's all you need.

Katie Dozier · Jul 2, 2020

CptRunBad said:
Volume is where a shark separates himself from a fish. When you are making +E/V plays you will always come out on top of you play enough hands.

Very true! Almost anything can happen in the short term when it comes to poker; it's the long run that matters!

vinnie · Jul 2, 2020

I don't even understand this post. The way you describe it, you were playing a cash game. And you're using his sharkscope ranking to determine if he is a fish or not. Tournaments with stacks under 40xbb most of the time are a different universe from cash games with stacks near 100xbb. And, since you say your solution was to bluff more and get more aggressive back, I am betting he was just a normally aggressive player, and happened to notice that you responded poorly to that.

Do you have PT4 or another tracker and can give us the stats of how he was playing on the cash tables? What site and stake was this? How many hands (maybe it was just coincidence)?

pablo lima · Jul 2, 2020

fish can outdo sharks

fish can outdo sharks
I believe so when the fish do the perfect reading of how the shark has been playing more in my case I never went through this situation because most of the time I believe that the deck tends to go against me just one example I've been playing a tournament for these days and I received AK naipado and my opponent QQ we went all in I lost QQ held in the same tournament I received the reverse hand I QQ and another blessed AK naipado same scenario but I lost again because he hit the AS on the flop and I said goodbye to tournament how to explain it kkk i don't know.

NCDaddy · Jul 2, 2020

You know the expression.....even a broken clock is right twice a day? That happens in poker too. Of course it can happend. It may not often over the long term but....short term, absolutely.

TulasMoreno · Jul 2, 2020

Ok so whos the shark?

zinzir · Jul 2, 2020

LukeSilver said:
So earlier today on one of my tables there seemed to be this annoying player who seemed to know exactly what i had or what i was doing. the thing is that this player on sharkscope came
up as ranked 53.

this guy showed up on a few of my tables and it kept happening the guy kept following me into pots and seemed to know when I had it and when i did not and was playing almost perfectly against me specifically.

my girlfriend was watching and i was getting frustrated and said i dont get it hes a fish hes outplaying me my gf was like no hes not he cant hes a fish fish cant out play you.

then a moment of calm passed over me showing that my mental game is improving and i did something about it I changed the way i was playing and started doing weird bluffs and started destroying the guy.
I am not saying this to boast, a long time ago in my life i looked into religion and spirituality and whilst i rejected all of it and became a believer in the computer simulation hypothesis rrejecting all religion and spirituality buddhism did have something to teach me which has been something i need to evolve for my own life. and that was the destruction of the ego. this does not mean one stops been themselves or caring about themselves, some may think it means not been arrogant which it kind of does but it also means not to be low self esteem self destruction as well.

to simply think I am gods gift to poker because i make a profit and a fish cannot ever outplay me seems like the road to ruin, to have no confidence and give up on myself when things go bad seems like the road to ruin as well.

What appears correct is not to ask how good or bad I am but simply to ask what the best way to adapt to the situation is. in this case i acknowledged the guy was reading my game like a book somehow despite him been a fish and I changed what I was doing and started to reverse the situation and destroy him.

It was suspicious though how a player I have never played before seemed to know my exact game when they have fishy stats when even the best player should not be able to get reads quite that quickly.

i think the most logical explanation to that is either multi accounting or he had seen me play before against one of his friends maybe.

the thing is it did not seem to be luck or he just had it when i didnt and didnt have anything when i did, because as soon as i made changes i started destroying him with bluffs and inducing bluffs from him when he had nothing and i was strong.

so fish can sometimes outplay sharks?

So you are playing cash tables, but judge other players' ability using SharkScope? That sounds fishy to me, since SharkScope has nothing to do with cash tables, it only tracks tournaments.
A fish can get lucky and win against a shark, but will not outplay the shark, by definition. When one player outplays the other, the better player is the shark and the lesser player is the fish.
Think about it, you are describing a guy who was stalking you, preying on you, and outplaying you. You were the fish in that situation, regardless of what your Ego and your girlfriend were telling you.

FoxMS · Jul 2, 2020

This is a philosophical question. Of course, in this game, absolutely anything is possible. But in any case, an experienced and skilled player will always have the advantage.

LukeSilver · Jul 2, 2020

it was sit and goes not cash. this confusion has popped up a few times in this thread my bad. I often find I bump into the same players time and time again in sit and goes across every site even poker stars whom has the biggest player pool of them all.

tauri103 · Jul 2, 2020

I think that in the short term and thanks to the variance a fish can win against a real shark. but in the long run. the player with the best level of play will always be the winner. he will have better results because he will be able to use these skills and the experience he has acquired over time to achieve these goals.

Sebarios59 · Jul 2, 2020

The fish can destroy the shark, when the fish is not as fish as the shark believes and the shark is more fish than it assumes.

tata777rus · Jul 2, 2020

I'm a fish. But I often win. In a tournament of 3,500 participants, I reach 53-57 places. Since childhood, I played cards with friends, practice. Or good luck.

Kaleiduo · Jul 2, 2020

Only time I could see that happening is if the pro was OOP every time and/or the fish was using an RNG to hide their range. But why worry about the fish? They're there to give you money, they play with too much emotion.

MishkaZL · Jul 3, 2020

For me, poker is a hobby and I play for fun. But, nevertheless, I try to play disciplined, with good cards. I am always happy, regardless of the result, if my decisions were right.

ldw22 · Jul 3, 2020

In a word: no! But to elaborate, by definition, in a shark/fish scenario the fish is always the weaker of the two players. Of course, there's a luck/variance element to poker, so that might certainly help the fish to win against the shark in the short-term, without actually outplaying the shark. Like someone wrote on here earlier, it's a question of volume, because even a fish makes a clever play every once in a while, or maybe even plays well for a couple of hours, but if the fish is outplaying you over a significantly longer session then he ain't the fish! The fact that you had the temperament and the flexibility to adjust your game and hence ended up winning overall against the fish, is what makes you the shark!

Paya_31 · Jul 3, 2020

Hello, of course, if in the short term due to the variance that the game has, in the long term the opposite will happen, it will lose many hands. regards friend.

tayday79 · Jul 4, 2020

yes a fish can out play a shark! just check to them when you have a good hand! keep checking and let that s.o.b throw in all his chips then you call every time! lol

maxivega · Jul 4, 2020

I do not understand the publication well. Why do you think he is a fish?
Maybe he is better than you. He learned how to play and how to beat your tactics.
When you changed the strategy you could improve, that's the point. Change to not be predictable.

There is also the luck factor

. And it wasn't your best poker day.

Parkpar3000 · Jul 4, 2020

1nsomn1a said:
You can be a fish all your life and win money, and be considered a shark sitting for months at a loss. Modern poker is like this. Just work on your game and try to win no matter what. You can be ten times stronger than your opponent and lose to him, correct your mistakes and use the mistakes of your opponents that's all you need.

This!

neptun1914 · Jul 7, 2020

For some amount of time (hours, days and even weeks or months) fish can outplay a shark as after all there is some luck element involved in poker and everybody has down and up swings. In a long term though shark will be on plus and fish will not.

Chaskyweed05 · Jul 7, 2020

I've seen small fish go eating big sharks, partly to variance and partly to that attitude. ALL IN

Can a fish outplay a shark?

LukeSilver

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Only_player

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CptRunBad

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