Is this a cooler or did I just get owned?

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Drwaddy

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Hey everyone, I play @ Bovada playing 6 max .02/.05 Zone Poker.

Here is the hand:

I have KcKs in the Sb

UTG folds
UTG+2 raises pot
button folds
I re-raise pot
Bb Calls
UTG+2 Calls

Flop comes down QsKhJc

I raise pot
BB re-raises pot
UTG+2 folds
I shove
BB calls

Turn comes down QsKhJcAd

River comes down QsKhJcAd6c

I turn over KcKs
BB turns over Tc9c
 
AugustWest

AugustWest

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Just a cooler IMHO. Why would someone call a 3B with 9Tcc?
 
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Drwaddy

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Because obviously he had the implied odds on me and he's a super good player and I'm just the donk who over valued my over pair right?! 8 )
 
pcgnome

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It's never easy to throw away a set of kings after the flop. There's always a chance the board will double up on the turn or the river. After the 3-bet I would have just called though.
 
bkniefel

bkniefel

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just a cooler my friend.

if you would have bet higher pre-flop, or shoved then the 109 would have mucked their hand i bet..
 
steveiam

steveiam

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Because obviously he had the implied odds on me and he's a super good player and I'm just the donk who over valued my over pair right?! 8 )

You just answered your own question...Just one of those hands, we just have to learn and move on.
 
blueskies

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Just tag him and move on. Hard to put him on calling such preflop aggression with AT or 9T. More likely to have JJ or QQ.
 
rock0001

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cooler, the only hand you could imagine villain is having is a10 or 910, and even if you are losing on the flop you could hit a full and win on turn or river.
 
okeedokalee

okeedokalee

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Yep, cooler, that guy will lose long term playing that style.Search him, and play on his tables.
 
LeanAndMean

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Neither a cooler nor you owned. KK is never a cooler. It just got unlucky here. I think you played it right
 
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Tiltt2424

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A cooler hand IMO hard to put a guy on T9 in the bb in a three bet pot. He has AK a lot there too.
 
rock0001

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Neither a cooler nor you owned. KK is never a cooler. It just got unlucky here. I think you played it right

KK is never a cooler? seriously?. i guess you have never lost with kings preflop against pocket aces. and what about a ka2 flop?, if you are having pocket kings isnt that a cooler against aces? :confused:
 
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jj20002

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it depends on the size of the bets, if utg+2 raised to 0.15 and hero raised to 0.45 and villain paid a 3bet with t9 then yes is a cooler, but if there were something like miniraises to 0.10 and then to 0.15 is another story, but anyway there are people who like to see pots with suited connectors no matter the raises before them but for me is a cooler and just to see that put me on tilt
 
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RickH1983

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You are going to lose in a lot of situations like that in poker. Your problem was you did not raise enough. Kings are a good hand but it doesn't mean they are an automatic winner. The reason you make money with those hands is because people call and miss or over value a marginal hand. However you are always going to have someone that calls your raise with suited connectors, pocket pairs,Ax suited, or any 2 cards. The thing you have to do is think on each street why is this person calling me? Your first mistake was you bet too little on the flop. I dont know what the stack sizes were but you could have just called instead of shoving. It could have saved you money. With that flop once you get reraised you have to assume that someone has a straight, a set, or two pair. I know a set of kings is hard to get away from but a set only beats a pair and two pair. IMO you got to tread lightly after seeing that flop and getting reraised. The best thing to remember that is in Super Systems is that if there is a set on the board there is almost always a straight draw.
 
IntenseHeat

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I don't know if this fits the actual definition of a cooler. Let's not get into that though. Did he flop bingo, considering the hand that he's calling a raise with here? Absolutely! Could you have gotten away from it after the flop? Maybe. After all, there are couple of hands that could have gotten there on the flop and a quite a few donkey hands that could be drawing. Would I have gotten away from it? Maybe not.

What I would really be interested in is knowing the exact pre-flop raise and reraise amounts. I've become accustomed to seeing some pretty "loose" calls, especially with suited hands. I'm generally not going to be calling a raise of 3x or more with 9-10 suited, unless I have a reason to think someone is trying to make a move. I'm definitely not going to be calling 3-bets with it. But how truly bad of a call this is would depend to me on the actual size of the bet being called. Some players are just looking for an excuse to play hands, like having suited cards. Our bets, raises and reraises should be sized to give these players a reason to fold.

What I find is that once a player makes their mind up to call, it's going to take more to change their mind. For example, it's going to take more than a min raise to get me to fold 9-10 suited from the BB, but I'm not calling more than that from an EP raiser. But to someone with a wider range than me might consider 9-10 suited to be a stronger hand, epspecially from the BB. Once they make up their mind that they like their cards, a min raise, and maybe even 3x, isn't going to change their mind, especially at these low stakes. Once they've made up their mind to call the first raiser then it's much easier for them to call a 3-bet. It's almost as if their thinking goes from "I want to play this hand" to "I don't wand to fold this hand", which is a major difference. We need to take this kind of thinking into account when sizing our bets and raises.
 
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aznman08

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There are alot of loose players at micro zone poker. Course in a 3b pot, without stack sizes mentioned you could have given the opponent the odds to cool you on the flop. Just need to suck it in and move on.
 
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RickAversion

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It was risky to shove with such a tight flop of picture cards.
Figure there are 10s and A's out there.

He flopped the straight.
He didn't get lucky on the river.

You were outplayed.
Straight beats pair.
Next time, be careful seeing possible straights
Same with flush.
 
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jj20002

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Hey everyone, I play @ Bovada playing 6 max .02/.05 Zone Poker.

Here is the hand:

I have KcKs in the Sb

UTG folds
UTG+2 raises pot
button folds
I re-raise pot
Bb Calls
UTG+2 Calls

Flop comes down QsKhJc

I raise pot
BB re-raises pot
UTG+2 folds
I shove
BB calls

Turn comes down QsKhJcAd

River comes down QsKhJcAd6c

I turn over KcKs
BB turns over Tc9c

first if he paid such a raise he should have some hand,

what hands he could have, if one doesn´t know anything about him, it was a tough decision

i don´t think aces because he were reraised preflop, so maybe an ace king, ace queen, ace jack or ace ten, or something like queens, or king queen or jacks or tens, and ten nine in the limit

then it came the flop, and why did he reraise with such a flop?

for me only this hands: aces (6), queens (3), jacks (3), KJ (3), KQ (3), AK (4), QJ (9)

and losing with AT (16), T-9 (16)

it look like 31 vs 32 although if one gives less chances to T-9 then it could be slightly in your favor
 
PoKeRFoRNiA

PoKeRFoRNiA

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Cooler. I don't care if the villain has a straight. You didnt' add enough information, such as blinds, stack sizes, etc. Only then, we can see if he made good call for implied odds against you or not. But EVEN if he had good implied odds, you have set of Kings and you're never going to be throwing this hand away. You're getting this hand all-in on the flop. Your villain can be playing it the same with so many range of hands, such as two pairs, top pair, lower sets, etc. Even if your villain has a straight, your chance of pairing the board for full house is 33%, which means you'll still win one out of 3 times.

It's a cooler. Everyone's going broke there. There's nothing "owned" about someone outflopping you while you also have a strong flop with high potential of making STRONGER hand.
 
D

Drwaddy

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It was risky to shove with such a tight flop of picture cards.
Figure there are 10s and A's out there.

He flopped the straight.
He didn't get lucky on the river.

You were outplayed.
Straight beats pair.
Next time, be careful seeing possible straights
Same with flush.

If we always assume a villain that plays back at us has the hand or hands that beat us, how do we ever make money at poker? Villain wont call a raise if he misses the flop, villain will call down or re-raise me if he has the nutz, so I'm suppose to fold every time the opponent doesn't fold pre or on the flop?

How do I extract value with a hand like K's when I get 4 bet shoved on pre by Q's or AK and have to assume it's A's? How do I get paid for my sets if the straights and flushes are the real hands out there?

Why don't we just limp every pot, wait for a monster and stack a villain over valuing his over pair if this isn't a cooler?
 
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chauncey274

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Just tag him and move on. Hard to put him on calling such preflop aggression with AT or 9T. More likely to have JJ or QQ.
I play zone poker on bovada sometimes. You can't narrow down ranges on there. Everyone is random, you have no info on them, and I have been shoved on after a 3B with everything from any broadway, any ace or king suited, all suite connectors etc. A few days ago I played it for an hour or so and got to the river after a pre-flop where I made an oversized 3B with position only to have the guy flip over 96s. It is insane what some people play on there. Especially at the .02/.05 limits.
 
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