8-tabling 100nl full ring video

[broken link~tb]

A few interesting hands in there I'd like some opinions on. I blather on as usual.

~1 hour long, 300mb big.

Cant wait, downloading now.

NICE, downloading now. Now I'll have something to watch during class this afternoon

YAY an actual video here for once. d/ling excitedly...

sweet a chuckts 8 tabling video, im happy
d/loading now

downloading, will watch later although I doubt ill be able to keep up with 8 tables at once, lol

More thoughts later when ive finished watching, but just quickly:

1. At 16:45 you actually have a double gut shot so i think a turn bet is viable as it folds out Ts/8s/other pps/some Qs

2. Um, did you just fold the 2nd nuts at 22:50?!?!?!?!

heh, some of the downsides of multitabling and trying to give 'good' commentary. Both were mistakes

What kind of scripts do you have running? It seems the one's automatically re-topping when you get below max, where'd you get that one? Also the bet sizing you're getting focus without clicking. I've looked for scripts like both of these and I haven't been able to find them. I've got one that can use the arrow keys to scroll through the windows, can fold, call, and raise with the keyboard, and can also reload to max but I have to push the button. Any info on the scripts you're using?

Man I 3 tabled last night and made a couple mistakes when I had hands on all 3.

8's not even in the realm of possibility for me.

d/l now.

overcards.com has just about every script including the ones I use.

I use betpot and stars autoreloader, but had a little trouble setting them up initially. Let me know if they don't work and I can copy&paste my edited scripts here. I tried uploading the actual files but I'm getting all types of errors.

jaketrevvor said:

Um, did you just fold the 2nd nuts at 22:50?!?!?!?!

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Of course not, he was beat by 6h3h as well. In fact there were 2 others in the hand so I'll bet the initial guy bet with the straight flush, Chuck knew the small bet, thus it must have been a value bet, had him beat, and the guy behind with the A high flush knew he didn't have the nuts thus he needed to fold as well. Amazing play and it seemed like he wasn't even paying that much attention

Loading it into my tubes as i write

d/l now, thanks Chuck.


I remember just a few months back hinting for some Chuck vids, and now they come pretty regularly which I'm happy to see.

@28:10, JJ with 3-diamond board, you have Jd.

Why are you betting this? You say it's a value bet, but what do you have beat that check-calls here? Seems either he's slow-playing a monster or has complete crap. I don't see a K checking here, so you can't bluff that out, and nothing that you have beat, a lower pair or something, is even going to mess around on a 3-diamond flop without even top pair. Maybe OOP you would bet here, just as sort of a blocking bet almost, but in position don't understand why you didn't just check behind, keep the pot small, play it like a wa/wb after that action, with the small caveat of you having a draw to the 4th nut flush. Unless the bet was to protect against a flush draw, I don't see the point of that bet.

zachvac said:

@28:10, JJ with 3-diamond board, you have Jd.

Why are you betting this? You say it's a value bet, but what do you have beat that check-calls here? Seems either he's slow-playing a monster or has complete crap. I don't see a K checking here, so you can't bluff that out, and nothing that you have beat, a lower pair or something, is even going to mess around on a 3-diamond flop without even top pair. Maybe OOP you would bet here, just as sort of a blocking bet almost, but in position don't understand why you didn't just check behind, keep the pot small, play it like a wa/wb after that action, with the small caveat of you having a draw to the 4th nut flush. Unless the bet was to protect against a flush draw, I don't see the point of that bet.

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I think that you are able to eek out value here from all sort of pair + fd combos/bare fds a lot of the time, though of course it is questionable whether this is enough to counterbalance the times he is slowplaying here. Also this bet is of course protecting against random As and Qs in his range which might hit on the turn as well as a nice bi-product.

zachvac said:

@28:10, JJ with 3-diamond board, you have Jd.

Why are you betting this? You say it's a value bet, but what do you have beat that check-calls here? Seems either he's slow-playing a monster or has complete crap. I don't see a K checking here, so you can't bluff that out, and nothing that you have beat, a lower pair or something, is even going to mess around on a 3-diamond flop without even top pair. Maybe OOP you would bet here, just as sort of a blocking bet almost, but in position don't understand why you didn't just check behind, keep the pot small, play it like a wa/wb after that action, with the small caveat of you having a draw to the 4th nut flush. Unless the bet was to protect against a flush draw, I don't see the point of that bet.

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But it's not wa/wb. A flush draw has significant outs against me (ie I'm not way ahead), especially if he's got an overcard or two. 99 etc might also call so it's pretty much a value bet.

A king is mostly checking there too, zach. Donk bets usually come from 'bad' players and that guy had some pretty 'good' stats, so he'd mostly be ch-raising a king. It would also provide some nice balance for when he wants to semibluff with a draw.

ChuckTs said:

But it's not wa/wb. A flush draw has significant outs against me (ie I'm not way ahead), especially if he's got an overcard or two. 99 etc might also call so it's pretty much a value bet.

A king is mostly checking there too, zach. Donk bets usually come from 'bad' players and that guy had some pretty 'good' stats, so he'd mostly be ch-raising a king. It would also provide some nice balance for when he wants to semibluff with a draw.

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If he's check-raising a king there, why on earth would you bet into that? I would agree with you on the flush draw, but you have the flush draw as well, granted there are 3 that beat you. Are you saying you think you're getting value from hands with the A or Q of diamonds? Because these are the only 2 hands you beat and have significant outs against you. But if he's a good player he knows you're not giving him odds to chase (and you really think he's getting implied odds since when he hits there are 4 diamonds on the board?) and would probably fold. So I guess you could say you're folding out an A or Q or diamonds, but you said you were making a value bet. I just can't for the life of me see which hands give you value here that you have beat.

hi mate good video.

What program is it underneath the players names that tells you their aggressiveness etc and number of hands youve played with them? and where can i get it?

mufc112 said:

hi mate good video.

What program is it underneath the players names that tells you their aggressiveness etc and number of hands youve played with them? and where can i get it?

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I think it's PokerAce HUD, google it and you'll find it. It costs $25 though and requires Pokertracker (which costs $55, don't buy now though, there's a new version coming out very soon. But if you have it already, PokerAce HUD is the program you want to look for).


My comments on the 88 hand:

Here's a little manual HH:
Stacks: SB ~64, BB ~95, hero has both covered
folded to hero
hero to 3.50 from CO [8s8d]
button fold
SB call
BB raise to 11
hero call
SB call

flop [6s Th 3s] Pot: ~33

SB check
BB bet 14
hero raise to 30
SB fold
BB shove
hero fold
SB fold

So he 3-bets this preflop, suggesting a legitimate hand, and the caller behind does as well. I really don't mind the call especially if you think you'll get another caller giving you increased implied odds as well as pot odds, on top of the fact that you could have the best hand and win the pot if both the other 2 have over cards. BB leads out with a smallish cbet, now I think you were right, it does look a lot like AK or something like that. If not for the flush draw and the potential straight draws out there, this could easily be AA/KK, and it still could be, but I'd think those hands would bet a bit more here. This actually looks a lot like a set or 2-pair tbh mainly because he's not at all afraid his hand is behind, betting into a 3-way pot, but I don't see a hand like that that would 3-bet preflop.

But let's look at it from his point of view. You've flat called a 3bet, what kind of range do you have in his eyes? You most likely don't have AA/KK here, and a set is the only hand he should really worry about. If you both were deeper and he didn't have to shove there I could see him doing it with a lot of hands, just on the fact that you're bluffing this a lot, since anyone familiar with you knows you're aggressive, knows that this was a pretty dry board and that you could be taking advantage of the fact that it looks like he's trying to steal the pot. The only problem is that shoving there gives your stack away on the hands where you have a set or 2-pair, but with that shove he's even folding out hands like QQ and less, not sure about AA/KK. So I think it's possible that he could have been on a bluff there just because of the way you were playing, but I think it's probably he had a hand there, just because of the fact that he put his stack in. You obviously had somewhat of a hand, and usually you don't want to be stacking off on a bluff. So I'm not sure about the initial push, but you probably ran into a high pocket pair, don't really see any other hands that would take this line.

And I don't think you played it that bad, if you had won it you'd have talked about how well you played the hand and the good read. I think you were a bit results-oriented on that one and the majority of the time that he will fold to that raise. On the other hand I really don't mind just folding and giving up there either. There are 2 people remaining, either of which could have hit a big hand that has you crushed and will stack. Iffy either way I think, but not a horrible play raising that bet. You just got unlucky and ran into the top part of his range. It happens.

Thanks a lot for this video bro, great contribution!

8 tables is madness, ever since I split my screen with a chip, 2 tables is max for me. ill dl and watch this.

zachvac said:

If he's check-raising a king there, why on earth would you bet into that? I would agree with you on the flush draw, but you have the flush draw as well, granted there are 3 that beat you. Are you saying you think you're getting value from hands with the A or Q of diamonds? Because these are the only 2 hands you beat and have significant outs against you. But if he's a good player he knows you're not giving him odds to chase (and you really think he's getting implied odds since when he hits there are 4 diamonds on the board?) and would probably fold. So I guess you could say you're folding out an A or Q or diamonds, but you said you were making a value bet. I just can't for the life of me see which hands give you value here that you have beat.

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I kind of shot out a response there without thinking much and I think you're right. A correction: a 'good' player will probably mix it up between check-raising and check-calling. Leading doesn't do much good.

Anyways we still get value from the small/medium pairs as well as the draws, but I think you're right about checking being best there. The smaller pairs won't always call, and we obviously don't want to get ch-raised off our hand from a draw.

It's not a wa/wb spot but I think the ideal way to play it is similar. The big difference of course is when we're not-so-far ahead of flush draws and/or overs, and we're not-so-far behind sets and kings (without diamonds).

zachvac said:

My comments on the 88 hand:

Here's a little manual HH:
Stacks: SB ~64, BB ~95, hero has both covered
folded to hero
hero to 3.50 from CO [8s8d]
button fold
SB call
BB raise to 11
hero call
SB call

flop [6s Th 3s] Pot: ~33

SB check
BB bet 14
hero raise to 30
SB fold
BB shove
hero fold
SB fold

So he 3-bets this preflop, suggesting a legitimate hand, and the caller behind does as well. I really don't mind the call especially if you think you'll get another caller giving you increased implied odds as well as pot odds, on top of the fact that you could have the best hand and win the pot if both the other 2 have over cards. BB leads out with a smallish cbet, now I think you were right, it does look a lot like AK or something like that. If not for the flush draw and the potential straight draws out there, this could easily be AA/KK, and it still could be, but I'd think those hands would bet a bit more here. This actually looks a lot like a set or 2-pair tbh mainly because he's not at all afraid his hand is behind, betting into a 3-way pot, but I don't see a hand like that that would 3-bet preflop.

But let's look at it from his point of view. You've flat called a 3bet, what kind of range do you have in his eyes? You most likely don't have AA/KK here, and a set is the only hand he should really worry about. If you both were deeper and he didn't have to shove there I could see him doing it with a lot of hands, just on the fact that you're bluffing this a lot, since anyone familiar with you knows you're aggressive, knows that this was a pretty dry board and that you could be taking advantage of the fact that it looks like he's trying to steal the pot. The only problem is that shoving there gives your stack away on the hands where you have a set or 2-pair, but with that shove he's even folding out hands like QQ and less, not sure about AA/KK. So I think it's possible that he could have been on a bluff there just because of the way you were playing, but I think it's probably he had a hand there, just because of the fact that he put his stack in. You obviously had somewhat of a hand, and usually you don't want to be stacking off on a bluff. So I'm not sure about the initial push, but you probably ran into a high pocket pair, don't really see any other hands that would take this line.

And I don't think you played it that bad, if you had won it you'd have talked about how well you played the hand and the good read. I think you were a bit results-oriented on that one and the majority of the time that he will fold to that raise. On the other hand I really don't mind just folding and giving up there either. There are 2 people remaining, either of which could have hit a big hand that has you crushed and will stack. Iffy either way I think, but not a horrible play raising that bet. You just got unlucky and ran into the top part of his range. It happens.

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I'm still a little stuck with the 88 hand, but I think his line plus the stack sizes leads to folding the 8s. If he's deeper and/or if we're heads up I think raising has a lot more merit to it.

Thanks for watching and giving some input zach.

In the 88 hand let's say that his range consists of TT+, AQ+ and that he will lay down the AQ+ and stack the TT+. This means that purely statistically he will lay down 32/59 hands and shove 27/59 (am I right?). So::

<EV of raise>=$48.20*32/59 - $30*27/59
<EV of raise>=26.14 - 13.73
<EV of raise>=$12.41

= waaay +EV

of course if this dude doesn't 3bet pf with AQo then it's slightly different but still considerably +EV. Perfectly viable play imo.

Interesting proof there jake, makes me feel a little better about my move

I'm not sure he 3-bets AQ, nor will he c-bet AK/AQ ALL the time though, so it's probably closer to a negative play than what you've calculated.