Is 55 better than 66?

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My theory is that 55 is better than 66 for the same reason that A5 is better than A6: it is more likely to make a straight. Think about it: every straight involves either a 5 or a 10, so if you have 55, you block out the possibility of other people having straights, as well as increasing the chance that you'll get a straight.

In addition to that, the poker program "Cepheus" is more likely to raise 55 than 66. This is the only exception to the general rule that Cepheus is more likely to raise higher pockets than lower pockets (eg. more likely to raise 88 than 77, more likely to raise 99 than 88, etc.). So it seems that Cepheus prefers 55 to 66.

What do you think? Is 55 better than 66 in a cash game?
 
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UncleConRon

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My opinion

Your analysis is interesting and makes sence. Here is my opinion. If you have hit trip 5's recently, then 66 is better then 55. If you haven't hit trip 5's recently, 55 is better then 66.
 
10058765

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I put 55 against random in pokerstove....55 is 60.325 % favorite.
Did the same for 66..which is 63.285 % favorite.

Did the same for both hands against 50 % of hands.
55 is 52.688 % favorite.
66 is 54.84 % favorite.

Against 25 % of hands 55 is a 47.612% dog.
66 is a 48.796% dog.
 
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hffjd2000

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Well, if no one hits on the board say both went all-in, the higher pair wins.

Even with just one step higher, still the higher pair has slight edge in terms of straights or flushes.
 
Dwilius

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Go ahead, put me on two wheel cards.
 
REBEKC

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no dude, just check the 10058765 data, its very good imo
 
Four Dogs

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My theory is that 55 is better than 66 for the same reason that A5 is better than A6: it is more likely to make a straight. Think about it: every straight involves either a 5 or a 10, so if you have 55, you block out the possibility of other people having straights, as well as increasing the chance that you'll get a straight.

In addition to that, the poker program "Cepheus" is more likely to raise 55 than 66. This is the only exception to the general rule that Cepheus is more likely to raise higher pockets than lower pockets (eg. more likely to raise 88 than 77, more likely to raise 99 than 88, etc.). So it seems that Cepheus prefers 55 to 66.

What do you think? Is 55 better than 66 in a cash game?
Interesting but nothing to do with one hand making straights more often. Both have an equal number of straight combinations. It may however have something to do with 55's value as a blocker to wheel straights as Ax hands are more likely to stick around to see a flop.



Your analysis is interesting and makes sence. Here is my opinion. If you have hit trip 5's recently, then 66 is better then 55. If you haven't hit trip 5's recently, 55 is better then 66.
You're joking of course.:hmmmm2:
 
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whit respect, this is is the most stupid thread i have read, there is no reason to think 55 is better than 66.
 
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Tosh_67

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Is KK better than AA ?
 
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ph_il

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Here is my opinion. If you have hit trip 5's recently, then 66 is better then 55. If you haven't hit trip 5's recently, 55 is better then 66.
Ugh. I know it's not right to say someone's opinion is wrong, but some of the things you type just make no sense whatsoever.

As for OP, 66 > 55. I think you're confusing an occurrence where 55 could beat 66 with a wheel straight (A2345) and you're blocking two the 5's 66 needs to complete a higher straight as something that makes 55 better than 66, and that's just way off. There are more straight possibilities with 5s where a 6 is needed to complete and 66 is blocking 2 of your outs.
 
ribaric

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Well what you said its true but eventually if you have 55vs66 66 has an advantage and there could be some high cards on board like 10 7 J A 2 in that case 66 wins and if there are some smaller cards you have an opportunity for choping or winning by straight or 3 of a kind
 
PapaC

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I put 55 against random in pokerstove....55 is 60.325 % favorite.
Did the same for 66..which is 63.285 % favorite.

Did the same for both hands against 50 % of hands.
55 is 52.688 % favorite.
66 is 54.84 % favorite.

Against 25 % of hands 55 is a 47.612% dog.
66 is a 48.796% dog.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting that. Most of my small pairs go into the muck. So really 55&66 are about neck and neck. I'm going to start playing these more.
 
10058765

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Very interesting. Thanks for posting that. Most of my small pairs go into the muck. So really 55&66 are about neck and neck. I'm going to start playing these more.

the numbers were just an indication....I will not advise anything at all....just show some numbers......
It really depends on the situation.....stacksizes, position,reads on other players, to find out 55 or 66 are to play or not......

I just wanted to show with some numbers 55 is not better then 66....
 
MasterOfDisaster

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lets play 100 times OP Ill take 66 and you 55.

$1 each time
 
jaymfc

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lets play 100 times OP Ill take 66 and you 55.

$1 each time

I don't think they mean one against the other , that's a blowout .
but as 100 said against random hands they are only a couple percent apart :)



58ScreenHunter  Nov 08 1928
 
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Why so much hate?

whit respect, this is is the most stupid thread i have read, there is no reason to think 55 is better than 66.

Dude, I listed several reasons, you just chose to ignore them.

Is KK better than AA ?

Of course not. This isn't even comparable. None of the reasons I listed (why 55 is better than 66) apply to the KK vs AA scenario, so it's completely different.

View attachment 92051

And OP is asking why he cant win at online poker in several other threads.

Where did this come from? I have a 5bb/100 win rate at 2NL over 40k hands. I've made threads saying that I was having difficulties and that my win rate needs improvement, but I never said that I can't win at online poker.

And for everyone else: I am NOT talking about 55 vs 66 in the same hand. I'm talking about how 55 would fare against a playable villain's range postflop. Good players will play A2-A5 far more often than A6-A9, so having 55 blocks out a lot of these "wheel" straight combinations. If we were going all in preflop against a random hand, then yes, obviously 66 is better, but what I'm trying to argue is that 55 is more playable postflop with deep-stacks against a likely range of the villain. Feel free to disagree with this and provide counter-evidence, but don't just hate for the sake of hating.

EDIT: I was wrong about Cepheus, but my question still stands.

EDIT2: Also, I don't think that using Pokerstove is fair because that assumes that you're GII preflop and it assumes that the villain has a random hand, when some hands he folds and never plays. Another example is this: would you rather look down at 23s or A7o when you're deep-stacked? Obviously A7o performs better against a random hand than 23s, but hands like 23s are so playable postflop and I would argue that it's a better hand, due to the reverse implied odds that A7o faces when he hits his A and loses to a higher kicker. The same principle applies. My argument is that 55 is more playable postflop than 66. Imagine the board is A234 and you're up against A4s. Occurrences like this happen so frequently and allow hands like 55 to dominate.
 
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Debi

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Feel free to disagree with this and provide counter-evidence, but don't just hate for the sake of hating.

Agree :)

ps - I am only in this thread because I didn't notice the forum and thought it was about age ;)

Was going to vote for 55 lol.
 
fubarcdn

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Agree :)

ps - I am only in this thread because I didn't notice the forum and thought it was about age ;)

Was going to vote for 55 lol.

In canada I have to disagree with 55 being a better age at 65 I will be able to collect my old age pension of $569 a month along with my Canada pension of around $500 per month or around $13000 per year which is enough to enter the wsop main event if I so wished. You can buy a lot of hair dye with the difference to look 55 when you are 66. :)
 
PapaC

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the numbers were just an indication....I will not advise anything at all....just show some numbers......
It really depends on the situation.....stacksizes, position,reads on other players, to find out 55 or 66 are to play or not......

I just wanted to show with some numbers 55 is not better then 66....

I know you are just showing numbers, but for me it's helpful, so still thanks. Don't worry, position/range are two I'm working on right now, so I'm sure not going those hands in the wrong position, but I may still try to limp from early position. Then fold to the raise.
 
Four Dogs

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Agreed that this is stupid, but it is interesting that this Cepheus simulator prefers to raise more often with 55 than 66. What's going on there? I'm just taking his word for this and it doesn't make immediate sense to me. Can anyone else confirm this?
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Besides the obvious reasons stated I'd take 66 because you will get paid more often (by the fish obv, and sometimes even the decent but non believers looking for a chop at worst) when the board comes 2345 and he has an A then you will when you have 55 and the board comes A234 :D
 
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Load up pokerstove and compare 55 and 66 to the villain range you're describing. I believe you're overthinking things, OP. It's not hard to see why 66 on average is the (slight) victor.

Note - 55 beats A2-A5s, A2-A5o 68% of the time and 66 beats that range 68% of the time. Against a villain range of 55+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo, 55 wins 45% of the time and 66 wins 47%.
 
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Vadim Kudimov

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experienced players tell me. in tournaments with a hand below the 10 October advise how to play on the flop? raise or check-raise? thank you
 
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Agree :)

ps - I am only in this thread because I didn't notice the forum and thought it was about age ;)

Was going to vote for 55 lol.

Haha I didn't think about it that way :p

Agreed that this is stupid, but it is interesting that this Cepheus simulator prefers to raise more often with 55 than 66. What's going on there? I'm just taking his word for this and it doesn't make immediate sense to me. Can anyone else confirm this?

I was wrong about Cepheus. I apologise. I misread the chart. Cepheus does prefer A5 to A6, but Cepheus raises both 55 and 66 100% of the time, so there's no difference.

Besides the obvious reasons stated I'd take 66 because you will get paid more often (by the fish obv, and sometimes even the decent but non believers looking for a chop at worst) when the board comes 2345 and he has an A then you will when you have 55 and the board comes A234 :D

I see your point. 66 does very well when the board comes 2345, probably better than 55 on an A234 board.

Load up pokerstove and compare 55 and 66 to the villain range you're describing. I believe you're overthinking things, OP. It's not hard to see why 66 on average is the (slight) victor.

Note - 55 beats A2-A5s, A2-A5o 68% of the time and 66 beats that range 68% of the time. Against a villain range of 55+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo, 55 wins 45% of the time and 66 wins 47%.

I don't have pokerstove unfortunately, but I appreciate your analysis. Thank you.

experienced players tell me. in tournaments with a hand below the 10 October advise how to play on the flop? raise or check-raise? thank you

Sorry, I don't understand your question. Are you talking about playing 22-99 on the flop in a tournament?
 
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