5+ years and I still can't win a MTT

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4BeLikeWater4

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I just can't figure out what i am doing wrong. I've watched videos, read the forums, etc. I know I need to put more volume in, but I just run so bad mid-late stages of MTTs. Can you guys tell me some important concepts for mid-late stages? Thanks!
 
Lucothefish

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I just can't figure out what i am doing wrong. I've watched videos, read the forums, etc. I know I need to put more volume in, but I just run so bad mid-late stages of MTTs. Can you guys tell me some important concepts for mid-late stages? Thanks!

How many MTTs have you played in those 5 years and what field sizes do you typically go for? What's the largest field tournament you've ever won?
 
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4BeLikeWater4

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I'm sure I've played a couple hundred. Use to play the big field MTTs on Stars, but now just been playing on Carbon and the field is no where near as big as Stars. I've won a handful of 45 mans, but never won any 180 mans. I think part of it is losing my focus after a couple of hours. I know my stack really starts dwindling though in the mid-late stages.
 
Lucothefish

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I'm sure I've played a couple hundred. Use to play the big field MTTs on Stars, but now just been playing on Carbon and the field is no where near as big as Stars. I've won a handful of 45 mans, but never won any 180 mans. I think part of it is losing my focus after a couple of hours. I know my stack really starts dwindling though in the mid-late stages.

Firstly, 200 is not a good sample size but the sad fact of large MTTs is you can never really get a decent sample. But you've already said you know you need to play more. Work your way up, play some 90s/ 180s etc...

It sounds possibly like you're tightening up when you should be getting more aggressive. By the mid stages you should be looking for weakness and mercilessly exploiting it - with the very weakest players you don't even need to worry about balance, just rob their blinds every single chance you get. For everyone else, selective aggression is key. Don't slow down when you get a big stack, it doesn't stay big for long if you're folding. Don't be afraid to lose a deep run.

Getting moved to a new table can be a real PITA, a rule of thumb is pick on the mid stacks until you can pick up some reads.
 
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cloverlines

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Just work harder at it and find your own style. Feel it out and do whatever it takes to win. Luco explained it good.
 
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inflnlte

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5 years and only 200 MTTs, theres your answer. You haven't played a lot of them. If you can't focus on the 180 man, then just play the 45 man. And then add in some of the big guaranteed where the field is pretty huge. I think you'd do better when you see the big prizepool towards the top if your problem is getting tired and then not caring.

And keep playing more, look at your hands and see how you played them and what you couldve done differently. Dont just look at results. Experience will help you get better.
 
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gomango

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200 is definetly easier than a 5k tourney. I have won them. How? Setting goals. is one way for example. if your getting board. pick a player you want to knockout. for example a less experience player. getting bored with a tourney is an automatic loss. Take a small break. Stand up and ask yourself what you want from this tourney walk around a while. Get refocused that prize. It is worth being the last one standing in any tourney. Good Luck! On The Felt !
 
jazzaxe

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Agree about the aggression factor. Always need to increase, especially against medium stacks.
 
left52side

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well as stated before,and you are aware of this already. VOLUME is a key factor.
Also I noticed you said mid to late stages of tournament,that tells me you are tightening up to much when the blinds are getting bigger or just not seeing enough flops.
I know that the books say see more early stages and tend to tighten up in mid to late stages,but I think people misunderstand that.
I think you should tighten up somewhat but not letyourself be blinded out beause you are folding everything except for A plus premiums.
I also got close but when the blinds started getting larger I always seemed to come up short.
I found that if I started pulling the trigger when in mid stages and picking up some blinds during this stage it carried me through in the bigger levels and late stages.
If you are just card dead there is nothing you can really do,except for just pick your spots and position and opponents and try to make your move and pick up some blinds or small pots.
 
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4BeLikeWater4

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So when stealing blinds, are you guys doing it with 92o, Q6o, etc.? Or are you waiting for somewhat decent hands like 67s and K9o?
 
bz54321

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5 years without winning one and you are still going for it. Thats pretty awesome.

Start playing any two cards.... Play every hand. And when I say play I mean raise it like you got a pair. Note you will lose but you are already losing it will take some time to get the hang of it. When another player plays back at you fold(unless you got a great hand then come over the top). Just dont worry about trying to read anyone or anything like that. If they are being aggressive and you barrel into there blinds they will prob slow down. It prob sounds like I am joking and I am going to catch flak for posting it but you have nothing to lose so give it a try......

:cheers:

So okay you played any two pair and raised it like 300 chips and blinds are 10/20 and you get called. Dont stop on the flop shoot again the flop is were the chips are when they fold you are 300 up (Dont even think about your cards unless they play back at you).

Never just call you should only be raising or folding. If you get flat called on the flop and turn dont bet the river( its okay to check it if they are this persistent).



More likely I just wasted my time but if you try it let me know how it goes.
 
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PLAYINBIG

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I think Lucothefish pretty well said what you needed to hear.I was the same way when I first started playing MTT.I was afraid to play out of my comfort zone.After I had finally broke through the ice,it give me confidence that, I could win.You have to be more aggressive in the late final stages of a tourney or the blinds will eat you up.Try playing a low micro stakes buy in.Bovada has some low as$2 or $3 to enter & try it 1 time playing out of your comfort zone..hey it couldn't hurt.Try to be more aggressive,try a bluff but pick the right spots,hammer the mid size stacks avoid big stacks if possible & short stacks are gonna push the Ace every time they get it.They have nothing to lose but a lot to gain.I think once you win that 1st tourney you will be on cloud 9 & it will give you more confidence.Like Phil Ivey said,"every poker player plays better when he is winning" if your not winning...well your not gonna be playing @ your best".I hope you the best of luck.
 
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there is only one reason players fail at mtt but not on mttsngs and thats simply they are too tight also they probably lack understanding of many concepts , if i tell you to be looser it wont help you either since you probably wont know how to do that. There is a lot of misinformation online or on videos , you wont get proper answers and even if they are correct you probably wont understand what they mean , playing tight works on mttsngs but not on big field mtts.

I had the same problem but now i can even do 3-4 final tables with the chip lead on 20 mtts with a 2.5k+ field size , to win an mtt you simply have to become a lot looser which means having a bigger calling and raising range from early to late pos and try a lot of steal moves from late position with a much bigger but still legitimate hand range , if you dont do both you wont win small pots which are crucial for mid to late stages to keep your stack up , also you will lose the chance to hit that unsuspected big hand to double you up.

Another important thing for mtt is pot control , if you dont do that well you will get trapped in very tough decisions and lose it all , since mtt last for so many hours its very important to have a plan how to play each hand and pot and survive every single of them , trying to call to much in a pot who will turn big in river or turn w/o knowing the answer will kill your chances.

Mtts are like small pot small pot big hand small pot small pot and so on..... sometimes even if you are looser that big hand still doesnt arrive and you can barely keep up so you must have some short stack plan and understand stack sizes as well , the less your stack is or your opponent's the more you will have to bet to the max hands like tpmd or even second pair.

Simply there are too many concepts to cover in one post but the overall idea is the same *play looser have the skill to hunt all the opportunities that arise* i recommend you reading all hands revealed by gus hansen and poker tournament formula by arnold snyder , its a great combination that helped me a lot.
 
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Lucothefish

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So when stealing blinds, are you guys doing it with 92o, Q6o, etc.? Or are you waiting for somewhat decent hands like 67s and K9o?

Why would you need a hand to steal? If you're not going to showdown why would you need good cards? Play the players, not your cards.
 
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kworm2013

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I thinkd you should play more MTT with little moeney and read more books. And then ,you review the game for finding the mistake you have.
 
bz54321

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i recommend you reading all hands revealed by gus hansen

When I read this book the whole time I just kept thinking wow this guy is so lucky. :)
 
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Tgen

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When I read this book the whole time I just kept thinking wow this guy is so lucky. :)

thats how you win mtts , by getting lucky on the right moment and double up , if you dont have the skill to enter more pots and see more flops you wont get lucky , you will be regulated to wait for a premium hand and hope you will get action and win which takes a lot more luck , small pots alone dont win you mtts they only make sure you will survive long enough to catch that big hand.

Playing tight diminish a lot your ability to get lucky and diminish the ability to survive through small pots , when i play tight i feel i wasted so many oppurtinities through the game to potentially get a lot of chips and i usually lose to the first bad beat which sucks.
 
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I notice if I play with a no care attitude I will play looser and do pretty well. Then when I start to tighten up, thinking ok I am this far let's try and win this... lot of times end up losing.
Really like some of the advice in this post because tonight I was folding to some raises that were probably people acting like they had a pair. lol
It's tough when you have 3 players calling a 3xbb with K2 or 62 or 72 and you have the best hand pre but you fold to either a big bet or lose altogether. This takes me out of the game thinking I am doing something wrong so I walk away from the tables for a day or longer.
So, I am headed to cash tables right now, and will bluff bluff away. Then I am going to bluff again. See if I can get some of my confidence back.
 
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OK so first hand, 3 2.... in around middle position I raise blind from 20 to 60
Flop comes, Q, 10, and 9 uh oh
Heads up, he calls my bet. Turn, a 3. He calls my bet again.
River- useless.
He shows a 22 and I won. lol
Now this is'nt really a bluff, don't you need to actually have a hand to bluff with.
 
bz54321

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OK so first hand, 3 2.... in around middle position I raise blind from 20 to 60
Flop comes, Q, 10, and 9 uh oh
Heads up, he calls my bet. Turn, a 3. He calls my bet again.
River- useless.
He shows a 22 and I won. lol
Now this is'nt really a bluff, don't you need to actually have a hand to bluff with.

LOL love that 32 its almost like having a KQ.....
 
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