psychotie
Rock Star
Silver Level
Imo its better to play sng instead of mtt tournaments with a low br. U might win a lot at once in a tournament, but variance is much higher. So its possible , that even if u play ur a -game u lose in 19 tournaments in a row without reaching ITM.
One Table sng is much easier
One Table sng is much easier
G
groggy44
Rock Star
Silver Level
no $1 DoN are still donkfest unless you plan on playing tight till around 25/50 or 50/100
I would play $1 or even $2 sng maybe 6max.
Just bring your A game.
Don't over think things.
When you have the nuts just jam it. You'll be surprised how many fish call with 2nd 3rd pair
enjoy.
I would play $1 or even $2 sng maybe 6max.
Just bring your A game.
Don't over think things.
When you have the nuts just jam it. You'll be surprised how many fish call with 2nd 3rd pair
enjoy.
MediaBLITZ
Legend
Silver Level
Ditto SNG's -
It depends on what you are trying to accomplish though - trying to be a better player, right? BUT a better player at what kind of poker - STSNG's, ring, MTT??? Which way are you heading? if you are wanting to get better at MTT then STSNG is still a good selection as it all starts with being able to handle one table at a time - but DON is a whole different strategy - one that isn't going to help you that much in MTT when you want to make the jump.
So what do you want to jump to when you get better?
It depends on what you are trying to accomplish though - trying to be a better player, right? BUT a better player at what kind of poker - STSNG's, ring, MTT??? Which way are you heading? if you are wanting to get better at MTT then STSNG is still a good selection as it all starts with being able to handle one table at a time - but DON is a whole different strategy - one that isn't going to help you that much in MTT when you want to make the jump.
So what do you want to jump to when you get better?
Skull_Sniper
Rock Star
Silver Level
Double or Nothings are ok for building up a really small bankroll of $5 or $10, and Single table SnGs give you a really good chance to get ITM more of the time without a lot of variance.
NvrBlufn
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yes & Yes again to this.
I agree with just about everything in this thread. I would not recommend multi-table tourneys until you feel comfortable with early-middle-late tournament strategies and probably a handful of other crucial concepts.
For building up my account I always choose 6-max double up SnG. I have found the best money to be made there, but find the level where you do well and do not jump up a few pegs just because you're winning a lot and feeling froggy. The play works because at the lower end the players aren't all that amazing. A $50 or $100 double or nothing will expose you to players and risk beyond your wildest dreams. Not worth wiping out all of your hard work over it. Not if growing your roll is the main thing you want to do now. I learned that lesson the hard way!
ChrisDaBomb
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I really appreciate all the advice gentlemen, but in the long run I would like to be better MTT. I will continue to play sng tables but would it be smart to use a percentage of the winnings to go ahead and enter a MTT or should i try to satellite in bigger tournaments.
dgiharris
Rock Star
Silver Level
If your goal is to become a better poker player, my advice is that you focus on Full Ring Cash games and grind up from 2NL to 25NL.
Full Ring Cash games are the best way to learn and apply fundamental poker concepts. You can then translate these concepts into other poker games such as heads up, 6-max, SnGs, and MTTs.
However, if you try to learn poker by "only" playing tournaments then you end up "only" learning how to beat tournaments and sucking at all the other types of poker...
So my advice, if you are new to poker, just play FR cash until you grind up to at least 10NL, then you can start branching out with other types of poker and tournaments, SnGs, etc...
M
marcumx
Rock Star
Silver Level
advantages of SnG's over mtt's is that on average you only have to beat out 6 or 4 ppl to cash vs what 50+ in a cheap tournament however the learning curve is the same IMO. Tournament poker is tournament poker and you only learn by playing. for some reason i've cashed more in MTT's than 9 man SNGs.
A lot of books suggest doing micro cash tables. this is fine if you're looking to be a cash player if you have the bankroll. My advice is to set an amount to lose in both and have at it, it's what i do. Say i deposit 20 bucks..i'll use 10 for cash, playing with a starting amount of 1 or 2 bucks a session at the lowest stake, and the other 10 i'll use for MTT's or SNG's.
A lot of books suggest doing micro cash tables. this is fine if you're looking to be a cash player if you have the bankroll. My advice is to set an amount to lose in both and have at it, it's what i do. Say i deposit 20 bucks..i'll use 10 for cash, playing with a starting amount of 1 or 2 bucks a session at the lowest stake, and the other 10 i'll use for MTT's or SNG's.
italiano
Rock Star
Silver Level
I completely agree is more relaxed and incremental your banckroll much better!
A
atownshend
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
Personally I wouldn't recommend this ^
Cash games are much different than SNG (or MTTs). I'd just stick with one or the other until you've played a fair number of them.
If you do choose to play SNG's, it really wouldn't hurt to read through Collin Moshmann's SNG Strategy book (or 'Phil Shaw's SNG book'). I guarantee it'll improve your play alot.
imafish
Rock Star
Silver Level
That's what I did when I first started out to build my roll. Very low-variance way to do it.
T
terminaex
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Go for the SNG with a low bankroll. There is usually less variance with SNG (30% ITM) vs MTT (5-10% ITM)
You get to play much more hands and you can get better reads on your opponent's play style.
If possible go for 50c buy-ins, if they are offered at your site, that way you can play double the amount. The 50c and $1 stake players are usually the same bunch of people.
Remember the rule of thumb for any buy should be 10% or less of your buy in.
You get to play much more hands and you can get better reads on your opponent's play style.
If possible go for 50c buy-ins, if they are offered at your site, that way you can play double the amount. The 50c and $1 stake players are usually the same bunch of people.
Remember the rule of thumb for any buy should be 10% or less of your buy in.
ChrisDaBomb
Rising Star
Bronze Level
R
rhombus
Legend
Silver Level
As well as the two PO mentioned Collin Moshmann's SNG Strategy book (or 'Phil Shaw's SNG book')
Harrington on Holdem Vol 1 and 2 for Tournaments
PS Most of the top online pros started playing SNGs
NvrBlufn
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yes and yes. I think its a fine bet to use about 10% to enter MTT and satellites.
I cannot go along with the cash game grind advice. I have been playing them more and more (even tried multi-tabling the micros the other day) since I joined CC, but the variance is still too high for me and the strategies are completely different than playing live in the casino even. I made about $3.50.
I would rather play these people live at a NL or spread game with a larger bankroll than what I play online. To me that is poker.
My online is for tournament play, lots of hands, lots of prizes, moderate risk/time investment.
Books? Decide to play great poker by John Vorhaus and Annie Duke
dgiharris
Rock Star
Silver Level
I make my living as a live grinder and I've also played online a ton before black friday.
The reason you can't beat online cash is not because of variance, but because online cash is much harder than live cash.
I find that live players have a ton of fundamental leaks in their games. The only reason they tend to do okay live is because live players as a whole are horrifically bad compared to online players.
The reason is simple. Online, the lowest stakes are $0.01/$0.02 cents, and the rise in stakes is very gradual, 2NL, 5NL, 10NL, 25NL, 50NL, 100NL, 200NL, 500NL, 1000NL...
What this stratification does is it better represents the bell curve of poker ability. So the terribad players and beginners start off at 2NL and as they get better they progress up the ladder... You will find very few terribad players at 25NL+. I'd say online, less than 10% of the field will be horrible at 25NL+ and that 10% is usually comprised of noobs who just deposit and don't want to play for pennies because it's "too low"...
However, in the live game, the LOWEST game in 1/2nl. So beginners, noobs, and competent players are thrown in the same mix. Imo, about 75% of the players at 1/2nl are Level 0 or Level 1 terribad players. What this means is that the field is so terribly soft that you can beat the game while simultaneously still being fairly bad yourself.
2/5nl isn't much better. I think 50% of the field at 2/5nl is horribly bad...
It isn't until you get to 5/10nl that you weed out the majority of terribad players and even at 5/10nl you get a bunch of players that think tight ABC poker is the nuts...
So basically, what I'm telling you is that your assessment for why you don't do so well online is wrong. It's not the variance that is the reason why you don't do well in online cash, but rather leaks you have in your game.
If anything, there is LESS variance online than live. That is a mathematical fact, not opinion. You can see 20 times more hands online than live and play multiple tables at a time... thus, by simply volume you can reduce your variance relatively speaking...
MediaBLITZ
Legend
Silver Level
I think the path for your objective is going to be copious amounts of STT sprinkled with some MTT as your bankroll builds - BUT try to limit the MTT side of it to no more than 5-10 tables (working your way up in field size). For larger fields than that I suppose it would be okay to get your feet wet if they are like super cheap or you can satellite in.
Remember, the more tables the more you have to be on your toes to make continuing adjustments to your game along the way.
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