1-4 with Pocket Aces at showdown

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xnotic

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Anybody else have trouble handling the situation once they get rockets? When I go all in, I lose to J10 suited, a rivered straight against pocket 4s, or just another lucky pocket pair scoring trips. When I min raise, the blinds call, small blind flops 2 pair and the other rivers trips. If I raise up to 3-4 bb, I get no action. So I guess I'm asking, how would you handle pocket aces early in a tournament, with players you know are about even skill-wise against you? When it's late in the tourney, obviously you can just pull the trigger, but when people want to defend their blinds or just try to draw a set on you/don't believe your hand's strength, how do you handle it?
 
IntenseHeat

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I play them like any other hand to start off with. I raise 3x + 1x for each limper in front of me. If it's raised in front of me, I'll 3-bet. If someone 3-bets me, I 4-bet and so on until I'm confident that my man insn't folding or I'm satisfied with the amount of chips in the pot. Then I'm shoving. Shoving too soon might scare everyone away and keep you from getting any value out of those As. You don't want too many callers either. For each caller, your chances of having those babies cracked raises significantly. That's why I don't recommend slow playing them pre-flop. What to do with them post flop, if the hand makes it to the flop, will depend on the texture of the board.

There isn't really too much you can do about it if they won't play with you, unless you want to risk playing against half the table. I must have picked up As eight or nine times in the Carbon CC Freeroll last week. I have never been dealt A-A so many times in the course of one tourney. The first time I slow played them post flop, like and idiot, and got them cracked. The rest of the time, the table folded to my 3x pre-flop raise. It would have been nice to have gotten some action with them, but I had to be satisfied with not having them cracked anymore. Sometimes that's just the way it goes.
 
micromachine

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Anybody else have trouble handling the situation once they get rockets? When I go all in, I lose to J10 suited, a rivered straight against pocket 4s, or just another lucky pocket pair scoring trips. When I min raise, the blinds call, small blind flops 2 pair and the other rivers trips. If I raise up to 3-4 bb, I get no action. So I guess I'm asking, how would you handle pocket aces early in a tournament, with players you know are about even skill-wise against you? When it's late in the tourney, obviously you can just pull the trigger, but when people want to defend their blinds or just try to draw a set on you/don't believe your hand's strength, how do you handle it?

Raising 3-4 times is better than min raising, which allows too many in too cheaply. Your other problem is probably that you are unable to fold AA postflop.
 
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themosthigh

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Sounds like you're not up to speed on variance. Against most hands if you were to just ship your aces pre they would typically be an 80% favorite. That means the other 20% of the time someone will draw out on ya.

I'm raising 3-4xbb+1 per limper and gonna keep betting until I get raised pretty much. Knowing when to let em go is crucial. I still haven't mastered that part lol.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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A lot of people have that one fundamental flaw when they get AA (myself included) - that is to think and feel you are entitled to rake in a big pot with them - every time.
This leads to desperate trapping attempts that go sideways real quick vs TJ and others.
#1 - we are not anymore entitled to a big pot takedown with AA than with J6.
#2 - if you want a big pot you have to put your money into the pot. If you want to hope and dream for that big pot you have to include hoping and dreaming some other poor soul is holding KK, AK, QQ, JJ, AQ - something that will entice them to go on the ride with you. Now this is important - if they DO NOT have something to call your raise with, then you are most likely not going to get anymore action out of them anyway - UNLESS they hit that hand that is destined to crack your AA wide open. Two pair is all they need.
 
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xnotic

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all right so now I'm 1-5. one guy raised 4bb preflop and i called (mistake?). turned out he had KK and flopped a king. There was also a Q on the flop. Should I have taken that as a sign when he bet 11 bbs? I raised him all in thinking he had AK and he went all in.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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all right so now I'm 1-5. one guy raised 4bb preflop and i called (mistake?). turned out he had KK and flopped a king. There was also a Q on the flop. Should I have taken that as a sign when he bet 11 bbs? I raised him all in thinking he had AK and he went all in.

Well like I always say - the flop changes everything - but...

It would be very standard for you to continue to re-raise preflop, up to and including all in. This was the ideal situation for that. But don't you find it odd that you were not willing to do that PF but more than happy to do it after the flop (which changed everything).

But no matter on that hand - you were destined to be on the short end. In a similar situation I came over the top BIG (20 BB) with AA and got two callers. Figured one of them must have KK or QQ. The flop brought KQ7 and one guy shoves. I folded. He turned over AK. So what can you do? That's poker.

BUT why would you not raise PF when you are virtually unbeatable (if no more cards came) but be willing to stack off after a flop when KQ is in his range (2 pair)? You trying to trap? "Disguise your hand"? By smooth calling you learned nothing more about his hand. You 3 bet and he 4 bets and you start to get a picture of what is going on. But again, probably would not have saved this hand, but there will be more.

Eventually the math will work itself out and you are going to be unbeatable with AA (at least you might think that - until...)
 
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xnotic

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thanks a lot for the help, actually. i now realize that 4bb at the time was a very peculiar bet, kind of standard if you're utg with kings
 
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