0.02/0.05 PLO; Flopped straight

Flopped straight, paired one of the cards on 6 handed low level table.

Good enough to get all the chips in?


pokerstars Game #17822083284: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2008/05/31 - 15:25:40 (ET)
Table 'Dike V' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: iDWT ($5.58 in chips)
Seat 2: Smokenfire ($10.07 in chips)
Seat 3: FinnishLady ($7.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Ninelions ($7 in chips)
Seat 6: arashhh23 ($4.37 in chips)
FinnishLady: posts small blind $0.02
Ninelions: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ninelions [4d 5c 6c 2d]
arashhh23: calls $0.05
iDWT: calls $0.05
Smokenfire: calls $0.05
FinnishLady: folds
Ninelions: checks
*** FLOP *** [3s 7s 4c]

Well we can go ahead and pot it, but going farther depends on the action. I'm not much of an omaha player, but I've heard a million times it's a game of redraws, and there are plenty here. I think someone could actually be a favourite with a wrap and flush draw or something.

I pot it and see what happens. If I get raised I think maybe we can call and ch-r a safe turn card?

Chuck pretty much got it right, bet the pot, we have the nuts here and there is a flush draw out there and with 3 guys in the hand its likely one of them is on it, I would call a re-raise (Signals a set or two pair) and check raise on the turn as long as its not a spade/pairs the board.

Richard7787 said:

Chuck pretty much got it right, bet the pot, we have the nuts here and there is a flush draw out there and with 3 guys in the hand its likely one of them is on it, I would call a re-raise (Signals a set or two pair) and check raise on the turn as long as its not a spade/pairs the board.

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Why checkraise the non-spade/non-paired turn? Let me try to think through this.


With a non-spade/non-paired turn we're either ahead or tied unless the turn completes a higher straight draw (I'm still getting used to this idea of multiple draws because of the four cards). If we got raised on the flop we're "checking to the raiser" in effect, and allowing him to give us more chips if we're ahead, assuming he bets the turn. But if he's mostly on a flush draw or a draw with a paired 7 or something, then he might check behind.

Why not bet out at the non-scary turn?

And with no real redraws, but considering that it's 0.02/0/05, is it too much to re-raise the flop if I get raised?

Nine,
For me (and I'm more swingy with my PLO than most), I bet 3/4ths the pot on the flop. If a non-spade peels on the turn, I'm potting it then. If you were to be reraised on your flop bet, get it in, as you are up against either a set (most likely) or a nut flush draw. Either way you are 60-40 against the set and roughly 64-36 against the flush draw.

Also, I don't know what kind of wrap we'd be afraid of here, as an 8 also makes you an 8 high straight. Plus you also have a backdoor flush of your own that you could hit (clubs).

Where my question comes originally is that post-hand I looked at the history. Somehow I thought I had a low flush draw but instead discovered that the other player, besides having the same straight, had the nut flush draw.

Which reminded me of a video of Ribs that I watched where he criticized his opponent for getting it all in on the flop with him when they both flopped the nut straight but Ribs also had the nut flush redraw.


But, this isn't $200 PLO, so I think getting it in with little redraw is fine as there's more sets/two pair/flush draws even in combination that I'm well ahead of that will stack at this level. I guess I was looking for some confirmation of that from more experienced players.

You're out of position, so that devalues your hand. You've made the nut straight, but there's a 1/3 chance of someone making their flush draw by the end, and you could find yourself against someone with the same straight and good draws to either the flush or a better straight, whereas your hand is a dead-end.
It's a very dangerous hand. An 8 or a 9 could make someone a 9-high straight, beating you, a 5 could give someone else a better straight, and any spade would beat you. I'd probably consider holding off until the Turn, to see whether a 5, 8, 9 or spade hits. If you get a big raise after you then you're often against another made straight who may have redraws and certainly has position, so you may be best folding, even having flopped the nuts.
However, if things are quiet on the flop and the turn is safe, then you can jam the pot, because it's a little less likely you were against another made hand, and the draws are now worth a lot less.

Someone mentioned that because it's 0.02/0.05 they are getting it in.

That's bad thinking IMHO. When you're playing (regardless of the blind levels), you should not be developing "Bad Habits."

Once you train your brain to make bad decisions; you will lose much money trying to figure out what your leaks are.

Your hand is the current best hand. As mentioned above, you lack any protection for your hand: (1) OOP, (2) you have no re-draw.

Your worse nightmare is about to happen: you are probably drawing (for blanks) to split the pot. You are facing huge reverse implied odds. Folding the current nuts is probably the best play for you.

I have played PLO for more than .02/.05 and have saved many dollars by folding in this situation.

Although your hand is currently best, a lot of cards could come on the turn/river that give you the second best hand. A higher straight, flush, boat, etc....

signalman said:

Someone mentioned that because it's 0.02/0.05 they are getting it in.

That's bad thinking IMHO. When you're playing (regardless of the blind levels), you should not be developing "Bad Habits."

Once you train your brain to make bad decisions; you will lose much money trying to figure out what your leaks are.

Your hand is the current best hand. As mentioned above, you lack any protection for your hand: (1) OOP, (2) you have no re-draw.

Your worse nightmare is about to happen: you are probably drawing (for blanks) to split the pot. You are facing huge reverse implied odds. Folding the current nuts is probably the best play for you.

I have played PLO for more than .02/.05 and have saved many dollars by folding in this situation.

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What are you saying? That we're always up against another 56 if we get raised here? Can't be up against a set? Can't be up against two pair and a flush draw? Can't be up against a flush draw and a straight draw? Facing two raises from other players, yeah you might fold, but that's a pretty rare occurrence.

Also, I don't think the player you were responding to was saying that you should get all-in because it's not a lot of money. I think he was saying that you should get it all-in because the players at those stakes are bad and will put it in with weaker hands.

OOP its tough. Against most unknowns I'm potting this flop. However, you don't want to commit on the flop, since you're possibly getting freerolled (56 & two spades or an 8). So my standard line would be a bet/call, and then finding a way to commit to the hand on a blank turn.

Good case of when to fold on flopped nuts if there is lots of action. You have no redraw. Your hand doesn't play well multi-way OOP with no redraw. I wouldn't play this hand to any action. Ever. The most I'd do is check call 1 bet on the flop and on the turn if a blank hits. Otherwise, no reason to get involved deep stacked with no redraw.

Should've folded PF btw if you hadn't been BB.

skoldpadda said:

Good case of when to fold on flopped nuts if there is lots of action. You have no redraw. Your hand doesn't play well multi-way OOP with no redraw. I wouldn't play this hand to any action. Ever. The most I'd do is check call 1 bet on the flop and on the turn if a blank hits. Otherwise, no reason to get involved deep stacked with no redraw.

Should've folded PF btw if you hadn't been BB.

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Yup, I'm not playing this preflop if not in the BB.

But OOP four handed I've got to lead out, no? and then call one raise? Or do you fold to any decent raise?

NineLions said:

Yup, I'm not playing this preflop if not in the BB.

But OOP four handed I've got to lead out, no? and then call one raise? Or do you fold to any decent raise?

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No, you don't have to lead out. You are playing against 4 other players. Perfect for the CR. When it comes to you I would jam the pot. Unless you have someone chasing the flush or has the str8 you should take it down. Str8 will most likely wind up being a split pot. Flush chaser will be going after it with really bad odds.

bubbasbestbabe said:

You are playing against 4 other players. Perfect for the CR.

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Ughhhh.... lets not play a big pot on the flop with no redraws plz.

This flop should be either c/c or bet/call (unless there's a lot of action after you act). And since its micro limits, and you'll see players call with a much wider range, I'm leaning towards bet/call.

Lets at least wait until the turn, where our chances of getting freerolled are cut in half, to commit to the hand.

well, I have a totally different outlook, but I tend to play PLO extra aggy. IMO I think you should have raised preflop. Your talking about a 6 handed table, with 4 running straight cards with outs to a club flush. In six handed you definitely shouldn't be worried about the nut flush as much as in a ring. You raise it up because if you hit the flop with a deceptive hand like that you want the pot juiced so you can make a sizeable bet and most likely pick it up on the flop or get reraised all in because most likely if anyone has 2 pair its a good chance they'll think your not as strong as you really are

Since you didn't raise preflop, I'd put out a 3/4 to 3/5 bet looking to see who will raise and I'll go all in on that flop. If no one raises and you get callers, than betting on the next street depends on what type of players your playing with. If they're the type that won't make plays on you if you bet into them on scare cards and you think they will try to steal the pot if you don't bet than I think your best bet would be to bet again, if they're deceptive and will call with good hands when they have position with out raising you could check-call, or I like to check-raise a weak bet if your suspicious about it.

The size of the bet on the turn also not only depends on the turn texture but how much money of your stack you can get into the pot and whether you can pick the pot up there. If you think you can bet pot max and pick it up and its a safe turn, there would be the time to do it, but if you can't pick up the pot there with a pot sized bet and you can't let the other players in that pot know that your not leaving that pot than I'd bet 2-3x my flop bet, leaning towards 3. This way if a scare card comes on the river and you are thinking of calling you don't have to call a bigger bet to showdown.

redraws and all that, action or not, if you flop the nuts and you can get all in with no redraw, I think you should do it. For a couple reasons:

1. that situation doesn't really happen often, and not nearly as often as it happens in full ring, plus alot of times is a split anyway. If anything if your gonna worry about it I say worry about it more in full ring, not six handed.

2. IMO that really only applies to the higher limits, at those levels theres a lot more at stake and it becomes alot more obvious that it could be in your best interest to lay down. Much more money at stake to lose, plus the players at higher levels understand that aspect of the game.

3. at the lower levels you have people that'll be reraising you with top 2 pair, sets and draws because they are either LAG, a beginner, or just plain think your weak. You start laying down the nuts to flop action at these levels your gonna start probably getting reraised alot more when the other person doesn't have the nuts and you do, and that could cause you to lose confidence


You couldve also check raised the pot on flop, pending how much of your stack you could get in and the size of the bet you could make. any min bet you could at least 5 bet it. No bets come you can always bet the scare card and try to pick it up there