Accounting help needed

Howdy folks.
Yesterday I wob another of our games at Intertops poker and I thought I'd withdraw some money from them. I did and here's the response I got:


Dear VASSILIOS, 
Thank you for choosing Intertops Poker.
This email is to inform you that your payout in the amount of US$ 70 via Netteller has been declined due to the following reason:
The stipulations on your Freeroll cash winnings of have not been met
Please see an excerpt of the rule below:
Terms and Conditions for Intertops Poker Freerolls:
50% of the Freeroll cash winnings have to be turned over as gross rake, before a player is eligible to withdraw these funds.
You are required to accumulate a total of US$ 21.50 in Gross rake and need a further US$ 21.50 before your payout can be processed.
We wish you best of luck on the tables.
Should you have questions, please feel free to contact us anytime.
Kind regards,

I need some help with the blue area. I am rather incompetent in accounting and finances, so, please, if you can explain it to me!
What do I have to do?
Cheers!

intertops wants the freeroll winnings back in rake forcing you to keep playing hoping for miracle avoiding bust.
Did you win $43 in freerolls?
Looks like you need to play 100 games like this one below 22cents at a time or something similar maybe 200 not understanding the further 21.50 highlighted.
Will need to continue with upswing or bust the $70 in the coming marathon good luck.
It is the hardest site out there to get a withdrawal.:damnmate:

698/5000


According to what I understand in your publication you need to have an additional commission of 21.50 for each withdrawal you make while importing the amount.
so that you understand me if you make a withdrawal from an ATM you pay from another bank you pay a percentage of withdrawal that can be as detailed below.
1 to 10 = 0.21 ctv.
11 to 21 = 0.44 ctv
This is why, from what I understand, the amount of the commission in that poker room is too high because when you want to withdraw 70 it should be $ 2.10 here it seems that you are being charged a commission as you would like to extract 7,000 dollars to be 21.50. By lot I recommend you read its terms and conditions of percentages of withdrawals or refunds.

You have to play cash games or real money tournaments to accumulate a rake. With that $ 70 it's a mission impossible, just calculate how much you have to play to accumulate $21 rake lol

PsychoVas said:

Howdy folks.
Yesterday I wob another of our games at Intertops poker

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first stop wobbing so much
I assume you tried to cash out with bitcoin since you didn't mention the $50 fee for cashing out any other way.
plus $70 don't meet minimum $150 for those.
first time I cashed out , no problems. 2nd time I got the same letter as you
I assume most freerollers never get to cash out as the requirements are so high and traffic there is horrible.
cash game grinder is your only hope.

hugh blair said:

Intertops wants the freeroll winnings back in rake forcing you to keep playing hoping for miracle avoiding bust.
Did you win $43 in freerolls?
Looks like you need to play 100 games like this one below 22cents at a time
It is the hardest site out there to get a withdrawal.:damnmate:

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so $1000 worth of SnGs and he could get his $70
plus the few hundred he wins back of the $1000 he'll be rich

Hello PsychoVas, congratulations on your victory yesterday, I was the 3rd place finisher (MasterJones).

Our money is most likely stuck on Intertops for life lol. I asked an Intertops CSR about the 50% rake policy on freeroll winnings. She advised me that Intertops would NOT accept 50% of the freeroll winnings instead of making you accumulate 50% of the freeroll winnings in rake.

So for example, say you have $100.00 in freeroll winnings and have paid no rake on Intertops. They will NOT allow you to give Intertops $50 and you can cash out the $50. Instead, they are insistent on you playing games until Intertops has raked you for $50, which as everyone else has pointed out in this forum, a simple crunching of the numbers makes this mission impossible.

I do not understand why they would refuse to take a straight 50% like I offered them, as either way they would get the same $50 - whether they rake it off your games or you just pay the $50 straight up to get your $50. Perhaps they figure you're more likely to bust and re-deposit? But even that doesn't make sense because most people would bust and quit far sooner than they've ever paid $50 in rake, hence the mission impossible. And it's not too likely that they would ever re-deposit having knowledge of these ridiculous and frankly predatory withdrawal restrictions when they can simply go to 888, pokerstars, party etc.

Let's be grateful we have only "lost" freeroll winnings here. If I had deposited my actual money to this site before reading those terms and conditions I would be absolutely livid. In my opinion, a service provider should have to draw especially unfair terms and conditions like that to a reader's attention at the time of signing up for them to be legally enforceable. Nobody would assume when they click the box and install the software that there would be some ridiculous restriction like that.

This is one of the reasons I avoid Intertops. I think BetOnline and Sportsbetting Poker are similar (I may be wrong.. but I do believe you have to at least make a deposit before you can withdraw on those).

Here is another question..so your freeroll winnings have to be raked hard before you can withdraw. How about winnings from tournaments entered with freeroll winnings? Do those get classified as freeroll winnings too or are real money MTTs entered using freeroll winnings capable of generating prizes of actual withdrawable money?

puzzlefish said:

This is one of the reasons I avoid Intertops. I think BetOnline and Sportsbetting Poker are similar (I may be wrong.. but I do believe you have to at least make a deposit before you can withdraw on those).

Here is another question..so your freeroll winnings have to be raked hard before you can withdraw. How about winnings from tournaments entered with freeroll winnings? Do those get classified as freeroll winnings too or are real money MTTs entered using freeroll winnings capable of generating prizes of actual withdrawable money?

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Really good question and one that I was wondering myself. This can apply to STT/MTT/Cash Games. In other words, can you cash out profits that you earned off of wagering freeroll money that you otherwise cannot cash out? Well, at least Intertops has a live chat feature if we want to bother some poor represenative of this awful company.

I honestly dont see, why this is a big deal or particularly unfair. poker sites can not live from people only playing freerolls, and its not like, its that difficult to generate 21$ of rake. You can do that by playing around 10k hands at 2NL cash games, or you could play 210 one dollar tournaments. Playing something other than just freerolls will also help you grow and develop as a player.

In theory, I agree with you. In practice, anyone able to play that many games profitably doesn't need freerolls in the first place.

fundiver199 said:

I honestly dont see, why this is a big deal or particularly unfair. Poker sites can not live from people only playing freerolls, and its not like, its that difficult to generate 21$ of rake. You can do that by playing around 10k hands at 2NL cash games, or you could play 210 one dollar tournaments. Playing something other than just freerolls will also help you grow and develop as a player.

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If you play regularly and multitable, 10.000 cash game hands can be played in 1-2 weeks without problems. If you are not comfortable multi tabling, it might take a month. But even so why not just be happy, that you were able to build a 70$ bankroll without depositing? Rather than looking to withdraw that money, I would look to make it grow.

@jaymfc: Fat fingers and presbyopia (literally means "old age sight") lead to wobbing and wobbling instead of winning...
I do not have a clue about bitcoins, never had. I asked for a straight withdrawal in bucks via Neteller.

@rj_montana and @fundiver199: I guess that the "further" part is just bad syntax, as you both refer to $21 in rake.

Well, I'm not sure about how much of these seventy-something bucks is from free-rolls, as I didn't play anything else after the first month I signed up, trying to clear the bonus. Not many free-rolls either as on most Saturday nights there was always something else going on.
I guess I will try to play real money games and we'll see what happens. That anyway doesn't seem easy as there is low traffic, as someone already stated, in the site and not many fast S'n'Gs. I guess those sob's there want to turn me into a cash grinder!

First 888 and now that? What's wrong with you? Apparently I am kidding I could be in your shoes.

You know what?''Forget'' those real money winnings and treat them like tournament money or something like that. Take some shots in cash games SNG or MTTs seeking for the bink. Start a challenge this maybe the reason for a fat bankroll

After all we can do nothing , it's their policy and we all have ticked that check box without first read it in order to sign up to every site

akmost said:

First 888 and now that? What's wrong with you? Apparently I am kidding I could be in your shoes.

You know what?''Forget'' those real money winnings and treat them like tournament money or something like that. Take some shots in cash games SNG or MTTs seeking for the bink. Start a challenge this maybe the reason for a fat bankroll

After all we can do nothing , it's their policy and we all have ticked that check box without first read it in order to sign up to every site

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Probably a curse! The first blow was PartyPoker, where I was doing good overall. FullTilt which was my best merged in Stars and so on...
As for playing with it I already started!
I played a turbo $1.10:



80% seems rather safe, right?



Then a bounty $2.20. Here are the last two hands:





As for ticking the box, I always have a nightmare where Bill Gates comes and demands a kidney as stated in the "Terms & Conditions"...

After so many hands I have been playing I feel safe after the river card , so....

Good luck then Bill , hope you win something big soon!

CU at the tables

akmost said:

After so many hands I have been playing I feel safe after the river card , so....

Good luck then Bill , hope you win something big soon!

CU at the tables

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Thanks!
I tried a little cash and it turned out very nicely:




Won (wob ) more than $13 and generated $3.58 in rake. Maybe I found my calling!

Just try to get some more games in during the free roll and on Sunday when they have the most action.

You have to meet the conditions.

This is why I no longer play on Intertops, all the withdrawal restrictions.

PsychoVas said:

Won (wob ) more than $13 and generated $3.58 in rake. Maybe I found my calling!

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you found a gold mine cash coming soon good luck

well its money you can't get anyway but that has to be a good amount of rake again

The reason I don't play there...

Keep track of your rake. They will lie about the rake needed if you ask them.

I once met the rake for a couple CC final table winning and rake for my deposit only to be told I need to generate rake via casino for a casino bonus they gave me 2 years prior. I did not ask for the bonus either they just put it in my account.

After blowing $20 and completing the casino part they tell me I have more Poker rake to make and the previous CSR and me checked wrong. I got so upset I blew the remainder on Casino and have never been on there again.

This room is very sly and slick they can keep their games.

I have deleted Intertops from my Computer because they are so shitty... There is an amount of "due diligence" that a person should do before risking their time for a "free profit", but we don't end up knowing the holes till too late.
I've been doing these sites for long enough to know that many are simply not going to give you what you win, and may not give you back money you deposit without proper stress and strain.
WELCOME TO online poker...PAY TO PLAY, AND PRAY YOU CAN GET YOUR MONEY OUT!
My advice is to try to trade your money on that site, with someone who can credit you on a site you can withdraw from...