JJ into big stack in the BB

KingQuadDaddy

KingQuadDaddy

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How would you play this post flop.....?????? BB is TAG easy to put him on AQ AK


Full Tilt Poker Game #9372355368: $18,000 Guarantee (1r+1a) (71472906), Table 12 - 40/80 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:40:44 ET - 2008/12/07
Seat 1: jordankickz (4,255)
Seat 2: groengras (7,095)
Seat 3: DONTLIKEJOLINGS (6,553)
Seat 4: dfish21 (4,860)
Seat 5: Pokers2Fun (4,105)
Seat 6: threatnasty (4,432)
Seat 7: kennl (5,510)
Seat 8: sherKan (4,835)
Seat 9: NEONPILS99 (9,135)
sherKan posts the small blind of 40
NEONPILS99 posts the big blind of 80
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pokers2Fun [Jd Js]
threatnasty has reconnected
jordankickz has 15 seconds left to act
jordankickz is sitting out
jordankickz has timed out
jordankickz folds
groengras folds
DONTLIKEJOLINGS folds
dfish21 folds
Pokers2Fun raises to 320
threatnasty folds
kennl folds
sherKan calls 280
NEONPILS99 has 15 seconds left to act
NEONPILS99 raises to 1,040
Pokers2Fun calls 720
sherKan calls 720
*** FLOP *** [5s Th 8c]
sherKan checks
NEONPILS99 has 15 seconds left to act
NEONPILS99 bets 1,395
 
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B

baudib1

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Easy instapush. 25BBs, JJ, and a low board? Sounds like a dream. To be honest i probably push this preflop.
e
Unless you're playing against me, I'd lead out with a set here. ;D
 
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KingQuadDaddy

KingQuadDaddy

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Heres how it played out.....

sherKan checks
NEONPILS99 has 15 seconds left to act
NEONPILS99 bets 1,395
Pokers2Fun raises to 3,065, and is all in
sherKan folds
NEONPILS99 calls 1,670
Pokers2Fun shows [Jd Js]
NEONPILS99 shows [Kh Kc]
*** TURN *** [5s Th 8c] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [5s Th 8c 7c] [Jc]
Pokers2Fun shows three of a kind, Jacks
NEONPILS99 shows a pair of Kings
Pokers2Fun wins the pot (9,250) with three of a kind, Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9,250 | Rake 0
Board: [5s Th 8c 7c Jc]
Seat 1: jordankickz didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: groengras didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: DONTLIKEJOLINGS didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: dfish21 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Pokers2Fun showed [Jd Js] and won (9,250) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 6: threatnasty didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: kennl (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: sherKan (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: NEONPILS99 (big blind) showed [Kh Kc] and lost with a pair of Kings
 
B

baudib1

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I knew you were going to hit your set on the river.
 
dufferdevon

dufferdevon

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Good raise pre-flop 4x BB - stacks are still pretty deep and its early in the tourney. You get called by the SB and then the BB pushes it to 13 BB. He does this after a raise and a call in front of him, this is only AA or KK and may be AK.

At this stage of the touney, do you want to flip (at best) for your tournament life? If you do then you should have pushed pre-flop instead of calling.

Glad it worked out for you but I am guessing you knew you were behind before you made the call.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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^^^^^ Duffer hits one 350 yards down the middle of the fairway !!!
 
dweezel

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OK lets see .... 18 K guarantee ... so thats probably a 24+2 tourney.
Not cheap in my book.
40/80 blinds ..... so still in the first hour.
You get lucky with pocket jacks.
What position did you finish in that tourney.
and what was the purpose of this post since you spilled the beans already.
IMO the BB played it right and got unlucky.
He got his chips in with the best hand and got you to get your money in bad.
and you are the kind of guy I played all weekend.
 
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baudib1

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I didn't realize how small the blinds were. I thought he only had 25 BBs left, not 50. In this situation I think this is a fold preflop. If you're calling you're playing for set value only.

With no draws on board there's nothing he can be bluffing. His reraise preflop tells you "I have a huge pair." That means AA/KK/QQ...AK and sometimes AQ/TT. You're not beating any of those except AK/AQ and if he's betting that much with Ace-high unimproved in a multiway pot then lay it down just for his ballsiness (note it for later).
 
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The Shrog

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NEONPILS99 shows [Kh Kc]

I'm pretty this guys an MTT reg...knowing this might help your analysis as well.
 
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Cobryn

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Lets think this out...

I'm gonna give this my best shot at analyzing this hand. I may do a terrible job at it... but I'm going to break it down the way I see it, and then hopefully players that are better than I am can discuss it and maybe I can learn something out of it.

Villian comes into this hand with 9135 chips (114 big blinds) as the table captain.

Hero raises three times the big blind from middle position to open the pot.

Hero has 4105 chips (51 big blinds).

Small Blind has 5510 chips (69 big blinds).

Small blind flat calls 280 more.

Pot stands at 720 chips when it gets to the villian, who then raises the pot.

If this were to be a move because he thought you were trying to steal the pot this early in the tournament with everyone's M this high... its extremely ballsy (Too ballsy for me) and if you call its going to give great pot odds to the small blind.

If you think about it, its probably not likely that he's making a move here.

With the blinds this low what kind of hands is he going to make this bet with? Do you think he has a middle pair and puts BOTH of you on unpaired big cards? Thats tricky. Both of you are middle stacks and exactly the kind of stacks that its said are the right kind of stacks to bluff at in these situations. But its still a lot of chips to commit to make this kind of move at this time in the tournament.

How many people are comfortable making this kind of move from the big blind? Maybe I'm just not a good enough player to make it too often. Maybe I'm too weak tight, but I'm probably not raising with a middle pair in these circumstances from the big blind at a full table with two guys in.

Is he trying a squeeze play on you to isolate the small blind with a moderate strength hand? The small blind flat called. I dont think so.

What kind of hands would YOU make this bet with?

Ok.

So now you have JJ in position with a pot thats 3120 chips, or about 3/4 the size of your stack before the hand started.

The flop is very very friendly. At this point if it gets to you, you know you're going to try to take it down.

But it doesnt.

The big blind, which represented... no SCREAMED that he had a hand is going to try to convince you again that he's got a hand. And he's going to value bet you and make the pot 4515 chips and give you better than 3-1 to call here.

If you are deepstacked at this point... maybe its a continuation bet.

But youre not. So its not.

Could it be a bluff?

Possibly but I doubt it. Its possible he could be on two high cards and think you missed the flop, or see the favorable flop with that possible middle pair. I myself dont see that in this post flop bet. Because the odds are if you play on you're going to move all in. Thats another 1670 and he's not folding to those pot odds. So when he makes this bet... he pretty much says he's willing to go to the river with this hand. He's got to be successful with a bluff in this situation against TWO players too often I think to show a profit in the long run.

So I'm gonna say its probably not a bluff of the mugging sort either.

To call youre pretty much pot committing yourself and he's limited your options to going all in or folding.

By going all in on this flop youre committing another 3065 chips to win 6185 chips. So to fold here you have to be pretty sure that in this exact same situation you're going to lose this hand more than 2/3 times. Thats where it gets really tough on this flop for you.

And really easy on the big blind.

In fact, could it be possible to lay down your JJ on this flop in the long run and it be profitable? Thats the question I would love to hear responses on.

In hindsight its a great bet by him.

Theres no flush draw you could be drawing to, and he's got to be afraid of two hands here... Aces or tens.

Probably only tens... because he's got to figure that if you had aces you're just going to get all in before the flop and get it heads up instead of being three way here. Eights are too weak in my opinion to make the call preflop trying to make a set for a quarter of your chips on an 8-1 set.

So the only realistic hand he has to be worried about here is 10/10.

Maybe he puts you on AK, AQ, QQ, or JJ here. And if he does, giving you three to one on that flop is a great bet by him. But its the bet I would most likely fold to, even moreso than an all in by him on that flop. Its almost like he wants you to push.

All said, its got to be extremely hard to get away from that hand on the flop. I'm not saying I could have. I'd probably do the same exact thing on that flop. A few years ago I go all in instantly when he makes that bet on the flop. Now I'd hope that I would at least give myself the chance to think about what the other guy is thinking.

I have a question, when you went all in... did he insta call?

When he makes this bet, what hands do you think that he may have thought you had? To me it looks like he's pretty sure he's got the best hand... and that between you and the small blind he's planning on taking all of somebody's chips here.

This is one of the reasons I hate JJ as much as I hate AQ Sooooooooted.

He gave you every reason to believe he had a monster at all stages of this hand, especially post flop.

Taking this all into perspective, I believe the correct play would have been to fold preflop, or if you did call... fold post flop considering his actions. These are exactly the hands that I think seperate winning players from the average player and talking through these type of hands is how I plan to become a better player.

As luck would have it, thats really cool you doubled up. Did it propell you into a deep run that made you some money? Cause its a good story if so.
 
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I

Inscore77

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How would you play this post flop.....?????? BB is TAG easy to put him on AQ AK


Full Tilt Poker Game #9372355368: $18,000 Guarantee (1r+1a) (71472906), Table 12 - 40/80 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:40:44 ET - 2008/12/07
Seat 1: jordankickz (4,255)
Seat 2: groengras (7,095)
Seat 3: DONTLIKEJOLINGS (6,553)
Seat 4: dfish21 (4,860)
Seat 5: Pokers2Fun (4,105)
Seat 6: threatnasty (4,432)
Seat 7: kennl (5,510)
Seat 8: sherKan (4,835)
Seat 9: NEONPILS99 (9,135)
sherKan posts the small blind of 40
NEONPILS99 posts the big blind of 80
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Pokers2Fun [Jd Js]
threatnasty has reconnected
jordankickz has 15 seconds left to act
jordankickz is sitting out
jordankickz has timed out
jordankickz folds
groengras folds
DONTLIKEJOLINGS folds
dfish21 folds
Pokers2Fun raises to 320
threatnasty folds
kennl folds
sherKan calls 280
NEONPILS99 has 15 seconds left to act
NEONPILS99 raises to 1,040
Pokers2Fun calls 720
sherKan calls 720
*** FLOP *** [5s Th 8c]
sherKan checks
NEONPILS99 has 15 seconds left to act
NEONPILS99 bets 1,395
I think I would cringe and fold. He's playing alot like QQ-AA, at least from my exp. Just painfully lay this one down. I dont think he's committing this much of his stack without a solid pair
 
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