Hand analysis-This is what I did, what would you have done?

So I just busted a tourney feeling pretty tilted about my exit. I'm interested to hear what you would have done different, I am sure it was definitely the correct move here it is;
Torney spec: 9 seated super turbo / 3min blinds / rebuy and add on period recently closed / 168 players left and I was sitting comfortably just above average stack with 48k behind me. Player X went all in pre flop previous hand with the whole table folding. Immediately nh player X doing the same again - all in 46k. It folded round to me I looked at my cards and saw JJ. . I still think it was an obvious call however I wasn't short stacked and could of possibly waited for a better moment anyway,so, I the called.
He flipped A Q off suit flop come bricks for both all mid cards like 10-3-8 rainbow. Turn another brick , River. . . Ace WOW !!!!!!!!! What would you have done?

If the player is continuously shoving, shoving behind IP is the call.
If however, they are selectively shoving, their position will generally indicate whether to shove or fold.
Other factors also determine what line to take.
How many till ITM?
How much time left in current blind?
How much IS the current Blinds?
Whats your position Tournament wise?
What type of player are they?

For the little you have provided, I'll assume they were in EP ( UTG or UTG+1) , and had been shoving Semi-selectively ( 4-5 shoves an orbit).

Fold and survive to live another day, or a better hand in which to snipe them to the felt.

super turbo tounament

with 3 min increases and JJ you have to go all in on it - you likely have the upper hand, but in this case you didnt. however you still had 50/50 odds and super turbo you need to play your strong hands!

if table had a lot of players with stacks from 0+ to 1/3 of your stack of 49k may be worth fold and try get all in with one of those but super turbo tournaments you need to pmay aggressive to get to the final table!

good luck

This is the reason JJ is so hard to play. Depending on how close to the money, I probably would have called as well.

Thanks for the replies,no cajin you would be wrong to assume that. The player just literally bought in before the add on break and added on too. Played super aggressive every hand for the next 4 hands, the 4th hand was when I thought screw it, this is my opportunity to take out this bean. I said already the blinds were 3 minutes so time left on a blind is irrelevant and the fact that I said add on literally just closed should give you a idea how deep I was when considering my stack was above average as also stated, my question was what would you have done not give me a lesson in torney basics thanks anyway. It was an obvious call I just needed to steam out a bit afterwards I would do the exact same again.

SPANKYSN said:

This is the reason JJ is so hard to play. Depending on how close to the money, I probably would have called as well.

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Oh we was miles off the money mate that double up wouldn't of have even put me in the top 20! There was roughly 168 players left with 36 being paid.
Donkeyboys cards weren't suited -all in utg he was, on a 9seated, OK. Guaranteed he didn't bubble just a pity I didn't take him to the bank.

I still stand by my assessment, and the fact that the player was a very late reg walk-in, would only reinforce the fold.


You had no information how this player really plays, and had more than enough chips that folding till a better spot/hand would be better.

Sometimes, we have to remind ourselves of the basics. Because they are solid ways to stay alive, and last longer in the games we have invested our time and money into.

Wise words

Cajin007 said:

I still stand by my assessment, and the fact that the player was a very late reg walk-in, would only reinforce the fold.


You had no information how this player really plays, and had more than enough chips that folding till a better spot/hand would be better.

Sometimes, we have to remind ourselves of the basics. Because they are solid ways to stay alive, and last longer in the games we have invested our time and money into.

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Very true, but a huge factor to my call was down too his 2 shoves in both the previous hands before, apart from the likeliness of him not having two decent holes 3 times consecutively it looked very much like he was just whacking it in for a blind and ante pick up. Which at that stage after successfully taking the two ones down beforehand he'd increased his stack by over 50%, which is huge. I'm still happy with my decision shame I didn't record it so you could of watched it -I'm sure you might be looking at it differently. The guy was an idiot AQ off suit 'I'M ALL IN'

Cajin007 said:

I still stand by my assessment, and the fact that the player was a very late reg walk-in, would only reinforce the fold.


You had no information how this player really plays, and had more than enough chips that folding till a better spot/hand would be better.

Sometimes, we have to remind ourselves of the basics. Because they are solid ways to stay alive, and last longer in the games we have invested our time and money into.

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P.s I disagree strongly with your first paragraph. because he was a last minute reg/add on it was obvious he was going to be playing Mickey mouse that's exactly the reason why he was playing like a madman , if he reg,d from start there's no chance he'd got out the gates properly, he'd have little to zero fold equity due to the blinds being tiny and people with same intentions as him would call possibly lose and re register.

Yea, but in enough of those games, I've seen players like that come in quick and do some major damage.

And usually they don't stop till they have enough to sit well ITM, then sit-out and wait.

Players as such are flat out live by the coin flip, die by the coin flip, and have more luck then sense.

Cajin007 said:

Yea, but in enough of those games, I've seen players like that come in quick and do some major damage.

And usually they don't stop till they have enough to sit well ITM, then sit-out and wait.

Players as such are flat out live by the coin flip, die by the coin flip, and have more luck then sense.

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EXACTLY! That's what I have been saying you keep changing what side of the fence your on LOL point is,he got his 6.7% percent turn-to River odds this time but that call I made was correct mate he just got there this time shame we couldn't run it couple times

27OffsuitRaise said:

Oh we was miles off the money mate that double up wouldn't of have even put me in the top 20! There was roughly 168 players left with 36 being paid.

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easy call then. I guess it was a sat? I played a lot of those 1R1A sats and you can't fold JJ to a shove from a LAG opponent when you have an average stack and are far away from the Money AND it's a hyper turbo

Cajin007 said:

I still stand by my assessment, and the fact that the player was a very late reg walk-in, would only reinforce the fold.

You had no information how this player really plays, and had more than enough chips that folding till a better spot/hand would be better.

Sometimes, we have to remind ourselves of the basics. Because they are solid ways to stay alive, and last longer in the games we have invested our time and money into.

Click to expand...

against a LAG Player we can't make those folds with 3min blinds. If we Play like that, we blind out and have to shove 5bb with Ax or Kx and bust.
If you give him a 10% shoving range (66+/AJo+/ATs+/KQs) then you have 58% equtiy to make it a profitable call.
If you give him 99+/AJo+/AJs+ it's still +EV. And I think he is not shoving very tight if he did it 2 times in a row.

27OffsuitRaise said:

Very true, but a huge factor to my call was down too his 2 shoves in both the previous hands before, apart from the likeliness of him not having two decent holes 3 times consecutively it looked very much like he was just whacking it in for a blind and ante pick up. Which at that stage after successfully taking the two ones down beforehand he'd increased his stack by over 50%, which is huge. I'm still happy with my decision shame I didn't record it so you could of watched it -I'm sure you might be looking at it differently. The guy was an idiot AQ off suit 'I'M ALL IN'

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I think you should not put it in consideration if you call or not.
It should not matter too much if he was shoving the first time or the 4th time in a row. Make your call based on your Hand and don't call his shoves with a wider range just because he did it several times.
Usally I would say let the Maniac bust, they usally do so within a few minutes, but JJ was a Hand you have to call with. I would have called here aswell

Veritas said:

easy call then. I guess it was a sat? I played a lot of those 1R1A sats and you can't fold JJ to a shove from a LAG opponent when you have an average stack and are far away from the Money AND it's a hyper turbo


against a LAG Player we can't make those folds with 3min blinds. If we Play like that, we blind out and have to shove 5bb with Ax or Kx and bust.
If you give him a 10% shoving range (66+/AJo+/ATs+/KQs) then you have 58% equtiy to make it a profitable call.
If you give him 99+/AJo+/AJs+ it's still +EV. And I think he is not shoving very tight if he did it 2 times in a row.


I think you should not put it in consideration if you call or not.
It should not matter too much if he was shoving the first time or the 4th time in a row. Make your call based on your Hand and don't call his shoves with a wider range just because he did it several times.
Usally I would say let the Maniac bust, they usally do so within a few minutes, but JJ was a Hand you have to call with. I would have called here aswell

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+I think you should not put it in consideration if you call or not.
It should not matter too much if he was shoving the first time or the 4th time in a row. Make your call based on your Hand and don't call his shoves with a wider range just because he did it several times.+

Interesting, although sometimes this has worked for me really deep short stacked against chip leaders looking to smudge me out I will happily call in this scenario with a mid pair 6/6-10/10, I have achieved this multiple times against k4/k10 off, the last time was a 10/4 off suit lol! Just straight up bullying - but you are right I shouldn't evaluate it like that but sometimes I get a read sometimes maybe it's just a good feeling sometimes I'd rather go out with a bang

Thanks for your thoughts my brother, truth is straight after I was steaming however- I would definitely do the same in a similar situation as the blinds were milking my stack , just like you said it was that or wing it in with Ax after a couple of round after my stack had been depleted by 25-50%

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It is useless to analyze a maniac’s game. Even assuming that he had a really strong hand in the previous hand, all-in with AQo is far from a profitable tactic. You were unlucky. JJ is a fairly strong hand, but requires careful attention to the structure of the board and the ability to read the hands of opponents. In this case, the law of roulette worked. Your odds are preferable to a doubled villain.

I'd also begrudgingly call in this spot but with a grumpy face - with pocket Js. Although it is a semi-strong hand - they always seem to loose unless played out, seems hardly ever wins from a pre-flop shove.

I'd also consider the villains position in the hand. He's probably not shoving in that spot with offsuited broadways, unless he's a fish maniac.
Maniacs are commonly fish, but still - pocket Js are a great hand for them to beat with their rag Ace shoves.