Good or bad move?

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klickitat

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Live Tourney 40 players to start.

I am at table #2 with 12 players left. I have 14 big blinds left. I see 3 short stacks at my table and there is 4 players with significantly smaller stacks at table #1.

I am in bb with 8,8. UTG goes all in with 2 big blinds. Button shoves and for me to call it would only leave me with 2 1/2 big blinds if I loose.

I folded not wanting to be in a 3 way pot with 8,8. Also I seen at least 6 smaller stacks with several about ready to blind out.

I will tell you the rest of the story later after I get some feedback
 
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rule72

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UTG with 2 bb is a non factor and the reason you don't want to allow yourself to get this short, no fold equity. You have to assess the button player type and hand range.

If you call the main pot is 6.5 bb and the side pot is 20 bb. So even if you loose to the UTG if you beat the button you're a net gain and if you loose you've still got 2.5 bb and a full, albeit short, round before you're in the next big blind again.

What's your image at the table? Do you normally fold to re raises and button thinks he can push you out? You don't provide any player info, but unless this is a tight player you're probably good to call all in.
 
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dj11

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You were thinking ICM, whether or not you knew you were.

88 was probably a very tuff muck. 14 bb's is not so bad. You don't tell us how many get paid, but being a live game I would guess no more than 6, with a good probability of 5. You are still a long way from the money. Hours away.

If button hadn't shoved, it would have been simple. This is probably NOT a button steal. It could be, but you don't offer any opinions about what you have observed about the buttons play.

I agree, reluctantly, the fold was good. I too am never thrilled about 3 ways holding only 88, but 88 will not be an overwhelming dog except to overpairs.

It doesn't matter that the flop was 88A.;)
 
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ph_il

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Ugly spot.

It would really depend on how active the BTN has been at the table. if they've been really active with their blind steals and iso-jams, I might be more inclined to call with 88 as we're likely beating their wide shove range.

We aren't worried w/ UTGs shove as they're likely shoving ATC at this point. If we give BTN a generous 30%+ shove range, we still have ~42% equity vs their ~36%, so we do have a slight edge against them.

If BTN is tight and only shoving 18% of hands or less, we lose our small edge. Bascially, if button has been playing fairly nitty and this is one of the few times they've iso-jammed, I probably fold 88 here.

It really comes down to how active BTN has been and what hands I've seen them raise/jam with it.

Also, w/ 14 BBs, 13 by the time we get BTN, this isn't necessarily a spot you have to your stack in a slightly ahead/way behind spot. Especially if there are much more shorter 2-4 BB stacks behind you. I think if the short stacks were more even at 10-15 BBs each, this would be a good spot to your money in. If not, I can see myself folding and waiting for a better spot to jam first. Or if the blinds when I'm BTN are nitty, I can just steal back from them.
 
dj11

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Live Tourney 40 players to start. That was at the start, how big did the total field get?

I am at table #2 with 12 players left. I have 14 big blinds left. I see 3 short stacks at my table and there is 4 players with significantly smaller stacks at table #1.

I am in bb with 8,8. UTG goes all in with 2 big blinds. Button shoves and for me to call it would only leave me with 2 1/2 big blinds if I loose.

I folded not wanting to be in a 3 way pot with 8,8. Also I seen at least 6 smaller stacks with several about ready to blind out.

I will tell you the rest of the story later after I get some feedback

In the future stuff like where this was played, and final payoff #'s are helpful.
I know that around here the field at the start is small compared to the total # of players registered. That effects the prize pool, and how many players get paid, and all of that goes toward ICM decisions.
 
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subdylzep

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This is a tough situation, however with a bigger stack wanting isolation im guessing he was pushing w a weak Ace ( something like A7 - A9 ) probably nothing like a big pair otherwise he would have wanted you in the pot as well. like said earlier you can completely ignore the 2 blinds the player that pushed had. Its an instant call w ATC if you are heads up, so basically you are just wondering if you should call a push from a player w a larger stack, which basically you have to more information to understand if you made a good move or not. If you are saying 10 people get paid and you are going to blind easily ITM then maybe its profitable and an ok play, however if only 5 or 6 people are paid, which is probably what it was w 40 to start then you wanna play for more of a first place, and with the push from a short stack a lot of times you can catch a bigger stack pushing for isolation with a slightly weaker hand. (I do it all the time w just one or 2 behind me, especially live) Thats why id say he was on an A7-A9 preflop, probably suited at best maybe an AJ. Im guessing you would have hit and at least doubled plus some and put yourself in a decent postion to actually make it deep ITM. Either way, I think its a bad fold there. I could see it being a good fold IFFF the rest of the field is dangling around 10 - 30 BBs total... however if the average is well above that then you are going to have to give yourself a chance right now rather than later. You are going to have to race more than likely and you are short handed so chances are the blinds are going to hit you much quicker than a ring table. Take the chance here against the bigger stack looking for isolation.
 
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klickitat

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Ok next time I will give a little more information up front.

So both players where playing a tight game up to this point.

UTG showed AQ off and the Button showed AK and my 8,8 would have one as neither paired up.
 
Joe

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I would have folded in this spot too.

You are close to the final table and for me you're not in the position yet where you need to risk the majority of your stack, especially if you're feeling unsure.

You end up being against AQ & AK, which is plenty of cards to dodge and a coin flip situation and you could have easily been up against coolers.

I think you made the right decision at the time.

Hindsight is always 20 - 20.
 
bushy_lufc

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I think the fold is fine. I would rather shove a 50% range from SB/NT/CO than have 88 3 ways against what is likely at least 3 over cards. You have no fold equity if you lose the hand too.
 
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