$Freeroll NLHE MTT: Is villain correct to call??

I say yes even though he isn't getting the right odds to call my all-in, he is only risking 11% of his stack so that is a clear call imo, but once on twitch I was told it has nothing to do with stack sizes, villain should only be calling when he is getting priced in.

What are your thoughts, in this situation is it a clear call against getting priced in if you are riaking just over 10% of your stack. I think it was Daniel Harrington who wrote you can call with ATC in the BB if you are calling a SS raiser if you are only risking 10% of your stack, this situation is a little bit different as villain limped UTG and is not in the BB and he didn't call with ATC.

The guy I had the debate with was in the BB and I shoved AT when I had 8 BBs, he was on the BB and called with T4o, now he was only rsiking 14% of his stack and was being priced in, he said he only called because he was priced in and I said you could of called if even you were not priced in as you were only risking 14% and that's when he said if has nothing to do with stack sizes.

Now here is the hand:

PokerStars - 150/300 Ante 30 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 5,736 (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, hands: 13)
BTN: 9,001 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
SB: 3,395 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
BB: 3,268 (VPIP: 17.39, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
UTG: 24,370 (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
UTG+1: 4,863 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
MP: 4,255 (VPIP: 5.26, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
Hero (MP+1): 3,042
MP+2: 5,030 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

9 players post ante of 30, SB posts SB 150, BB posts BB 300

Pre Flop: (pot: 720) Hero has 9♥ K♥

UTG calls 300, UTG+1 calls 300, fold, Hero raises to 3,012 and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 2,712, fold

Flop: (7,044, 2 players) Q♥ 8♣ T♣

Turn: (7,044, 2 players) 6♦

River: (7,044, 2 players) 5♣

UTG shows Q♦ J♣ (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 40%, Flop 74%, Turn 77%)
Hero shows 9♥ K♥ (High Card, King)
(Pre 60%, Flop 26%, Turn 23%)
UTG wins 7,044

Wouldn't be jamming K9s here in your shoes unless the 2 limpers are complete chronic limpers and don't raise with premiums as you don't have any real fold equity, meaning we can only shove hands that are ahead of their limp/calling ranges.

As for the hand from V's perspective, V needs 38.5% equity to call assuming the other limper always folds.

If you are shoving a range of 22+ A8s+, ATo+, KJs+,KQo+, V has 36% equity.

trent32la said:

Wouldn't be jamming K9s here in your shoes unless the 2 limpers are complete chronic limpers and don't raise with premiums as you don't have any real fold equity, meaning we can only shove hands that are ahead of their limp/calling ranges.

As for the hand from V's perspective, V needs 38.5% equity to call assuming the other limper always folds.

If you are shoving a range of 22+ A8s+, ATo+, KJs+,KQo+, V has 36% equity.

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Oh I always shove a hand like K9s if I only have 10 bbs, especially if it has been limped into me. I wouldn't of shoved if I had seen vill limp and call a raise with a premium hand, but as I didn't have enough hands I thought gii as I could have at least 50% chance of doubling up. I never gave fold equity a thought as I wanted at least one to call and thought the big stack couldn't possibly fold.

I was just checking to see if my shove was in fact correct, as with 10 bbs I was thinking any Ks was a shove but in MP+1 it is actually K7s, so at least I did get it right Just glad it wasn't K3s

EvertonGirl said:

I was just checking to see if my shove was in fact correct, as with 10 bbs I was thinking any Ks was a shove but in MP+1 it is actually K7s, so at least I did get it right Just glad it wasn't K3s

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This assumes it is folded to you, in this situation you shoved over 2 limpers. While their limping ranges are (likely) capped, we still need to tighten up our shoving range to make sure our hand is ahead of their limping ranges as they will have a limp call off range.

Shoving a hand like K7s, or even J9s, while correct to shove if folded to you, would be suicidal in this situation.

EvertonGirl said:

I say yes even though he isn't getting the right odds to call my all-in, he is only risking 11% of his stack so that is a clear call imo, but once on twitch I was told it has nothing to do with stack sizes, villain should only be calling when he is getting priced in.

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Poker is such that any hand has its price. Even 72o against a pair of aces.
Conduct a simple experiment. You are exposed five times with AA and a short stack, your opponent - with any cards, but having a large stack. The reality is that you will lose. Sooner or later. It can be the first nomination, maybe the second, or the third, or the fourth, the fifth. The only difference is that if you lose, you leave the tournament, and the villain simply loses part of the stack, in exchange gets a chance to knock you out sooner or later. This is the main difference between the tournament and the cache. In the cache, all distributions are equivalent and you can just walk away with money. In the tournament you have to play to the end to get your money.

trent32la said:

This assumes it is folded to you, in this situation you shoved over 2 limpers. While their limping ranges are (likely) capped, we still need to tighten up our shoving range to make sure our hand is ahead of their limping ranges as they will have a limp call off range.

Shoving a hand like K7s, or even J9s, while correct to shove if folded to you, would be suicidal in this situation.

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Ah I have always seen it as if it is folded to you and you could also do it for someone limping in to you as well but obviously not if raised.

trent32la said:

Shoving a hand like K7s, or even J9s, while correct to shove if folded to you, would be suicidal in this situation.

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...lol. I've jammed hands like K7s from the BB with 10 BBs and 6 limpers before me.

Not going to lie, I would've done the same thing EG did in the situation, but now I know it's bad. Well, deep down, I always knew it was wrong...but sometimes, it just feels so right. know what i mean?

ohshootmybad said:

...lol. I've jammed hands like K7s from the BB with 10 BBs and 6 limpers before me.

Not going to lie, I would've done the same thing EG did in the situation, but now I know it's bad. Well, deep down, I always knew it was wrong...but sometimes, it just feels so right. know what i mean?

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Lol yea it does seem right sometimes.

I always think I don't want to get lower than 10 and I see limpers as weak and good enough to gii as you don't often see them limping with better than marginal in these games. I did have the best of it pre in this hand against the original limper and the other limper was not willing to put the shove in.

I never thought it was bad to shove the limpers, just knew it was bad to shove a hand like K7s against a raise. Now I know that the chart means if it's folded to you and not limped into

You had to risk cuz you were very small stack and UTG made a good call cuz he was risking only 3k of his stack. Probably was turbo MTT so u coudnt w8 for better card

ribaric said:

You had to risk cuz you were very small stack and UTG made a good call cuz he was risking only 3k of his stack. Probably was turbo MTT so u coudnt w8 for better card

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Yea it was a turbo.