$Freeroll NLHE MTT: Ran into All-in KK

marcoslopezbl · Jul 21, 2020

So, I'm getting heat from some friends about the way I played this hand.

Early stage of intertops freeroll, pretty loose play at this point, plenty of casual players around. BB is 20 chips with stacks in the 2000s. I'm at SB, UTG limps in, field folds and I raise 3BB. BB goes all in with 1.7k chips, UTG folds.

I have QQ and thought this was a cold call, but after seeing BB's hand (KK) and the flop (K2Q) a couple of friends claimed I should have folded. Nonsense, right?

fundiver199 · Jul 21, 2020

In a freeroll I am pretty much never folding QQ preflop, and certainly not when its down to short handed action like BTN vs. blinds. Some players jam random garbage early in a freeroll, because they basically want to "go strong or go home". And even if Villain is jamming more tight, you will be up against AK or a medium pair way more often than AA or KK.

In this case Villain played his hand like a moron, but he would have gotten your chips anyway. If he had 3-bet to a more normal size, QQ is a mandatory 4-bet blind vs. blind, and after that its a mandatory call, when he 5-bet jam. So he did not even win anything extra from you, and this was just a standard cooler situation, which it would be wrong to get away from even in a normal tournament.

marcoslopezbl · Jul 21, 2020

fundiver199 said:
In a freeroll I am pretty much never folding QQ preflop, and certainly not when its down to short handed action like BTN vs. blinds. Some players jam random garbage early in a freeroll, because they basically want to "go strong or go home". And even if Villain is jamming more tight, you will be up against AK or a medium pair way more often than AA or KK.

In this case Villain played his hand like a moron, but he would have gotten your chips anyway. If he had 3-bet to a more normal size, QQ is a mandatory 4-bet blind vs. blind, and after that its a mandatory call, when he 5-bet jam. So he did not even win anything extra from you, and this was just a standard cooler situation, which it would be wrong to get away from even in a normal tournament.

That was exactly my rationale. I still believe calling is the correct play, even if it didn't work out in this case. Thanks for the quick and insightful reply!!

fundiver199 · Jul 21, 2020

A lot of people are results oriented. If he had flipped over 77, and you had won the hand, the same friends would likely have said, you made a brilliant call.

ilciuca · Jul 21, 2020

never

never

ph_il · Jul 21, 2020

easy peasy call against jam ranges in the early stages of a freeroll.

let me guess, your friends would rather wait for a 'better' spot in the mid stages of the game with even less big blinds just because they 'survive' longer if they fold here.

300HPGOD · Jul 21, 2020

This is a call based on what you have said about the table. It is very difficult to ever find a spot where there is only one all in and you have QQ where it would be correct to fold. If you use a HUD and the opponent is tight as hell its still a call but the extremely rare times where you are up against a player where you have had 100+ hands against and they are running something like 18/17 where they basically never limp and then are limp jamming on you... yeah I can see a fold in that scenario. That scenario is not this case however and it is extremely rare although I did see it earlier today (I was not in the hand cause I had junk but it was a player that ran 25/23 and he limp jammed from UTG, and had AA). This is an easy call in the game you were in. You will see people do this move in freerolls with small pairs and even AJ, A10 hands.

perrypip · Jul 21, 2020

Even with QQ I try to think in ranges.

Lets say villian would shove with only JJ+ and AK. AA and KK make 12 combos that dominate me. JJ makes 6 combos that I dominate. QQ, 1 combo, is a chop. AK is more or less a coin toss (53/47 my favor). Does QQ sound like a good call now? 12 combos dominate me and only 6 are dominated by me.

Now lets add AQs to villians range. That's 2 more combos which I dominate. So now its 12 combos dominate me and only 8 are dominated by me. I'm still at a disadvantage.

Now lets throw in AQo. This adds 6 more combos which I dominate. So now its 12 combos dominate me and 14 are dominated by me. Now I am at an advantage.

According to my equity calculator the equities against these ranges are 47.4%, 48.4%, and 51.3% respectively.

So....Here's a scenario. Its the beginning of a deep stack tourney and effective stacks are 150BB. Villain shoves from early position. What's his range? Your guess is a good as mine.

fundiver199 · Jul 22, 2020

300HPGOD said:
This is a call based on what you have said about the table. It is very difficult to ever find a spot where there is only one all in and you have QQ where it would be correct to fold. If you use a HUD and the opponent is tight as hell its still a call but the extremely rare times where you are up against a player where you have had 100+ hands against and they are running something like 18/17 where they basically never limp and then are limp jamming on you... yeah I can see a fold in that scenario. That scenario is not this case however and it is extremely rare although I did see it earlier today (I was not in the hand cause I had junk but it was a player that ran 25/23 and he limp jammed from UTG, and had AA). This is an easy call in the game you were in. You will see people do this move in freerolls with small pairs and even AJ, A10 hands.

If someone with a very small gap between VPIP and PFR suddenly limp into the pot, that does indeed smell like a trap, and it is reasonable to adjust accordingly, especially if they then limp-reraise. This is however something, you see more often, when stacks get short, like UTG limping in with 11BB, and when someone jam on him, he snap call with pocket kings.

In this hand however it was big blind going crazy over a standard 3BB open, and then the limper folded. A good player will never jam in 100BB over a 3BB open, so freeroll or not there is a lot of goofball factor here, and I dont think, we can ever say, that this silly move is ONLY aces or kings.

We can not even say, that its only JJ+ or AK, as someone else suggested. We will, as you say, get shown a small or medium pair or even AT-AQ here a lot of the time. Or especially in a freeroll sometimes just complete garbage. So this is a snap call, and for me its frankly not even a decision.

erik_lima · Jul 23, 2020

Yeah, it's call. Don't be result oriented. He would go all in with JJ or even worst so the call is good.

marcoslopezbl · Jul 24, 2020

perrypip said:
Even with QQ I try to think in ranges.

Lets say villian would shove with only JJ+ and AK. AA and KK make 12 combos that dominate me. JJ makes 6 combos that I dominate. QQ, 1 combo, is a chop. AK is more or less a coin toss (53/47 my favor). Does QQ sound like a good call now? 12 combos dominate me and only 6 are dominated by me.

Now lets add AQs to villians range. That's 2 more combos which I dominate. So now its 12 combos dominate me and only 8 are dominated by me. I'm still at a disadvantage.

Now lets throw in AQo. This adds 6 more combos which I dominate. So now its 12 combos dominate me and 14 are dominated by me. Now I am at an advantage.

According to my equity calculator the equities against these ranges are 47.4%, 48.4%, and 51.3% respectively.

So....Here's a scenario. Its the beginning of a deep stack tourney and effective stacks are 150BB. Villain shoves from early position. What's his range? Your guess is a good as mine.

Thanks for the answer! I recently downloaded Negreanu's masterclass (highly recommendable, by the way) and I got the same advice. Think in terms of "ranges"

Of course, I'd also throw in the fact that we were at a very early stage in the FR, so the chances of villain being a "go big or go home" kind of player need to be factored in. I'd put him in a much wider range of hands than just standard premium openers.

But, again, can't argue with your maths and estimations, thanks for the insight!

marcoslopezbl · Jul 24, 2020

fundiver199 said:
If someone with a very small gap between VPIP and PFR suddenly limp into the pot, that does indeed smell like a trap, and it is reasonable to adjust accordingly, especially if they then limp-reraise. This is however something, you see more often, when stacks get short, like UTG limping in with 11BB, and when someone jam on him, he snap call with pocket kings.

In this hand however it was big blind going crazy over a standard 3BB open, and then the limper folded. A good player will never jam in 100BB over a 3BB open, so freeroll or not there is a lot of goofball factor here, and I dont think, we can ever say, that this silly move is ONLY aces or kings.

We can not even say, that its only JJ+ or AK, as someone else suggested. We will, as you say, get shown a small or medium pair or even AT-AQ here a lot of the time. Or especially in a freeroll sometimes just complete garbage. So this is a snap call, and for me its frankly not even a decision.

Now forwarding ALL of these replies to my critics :laugh: Thanks for the insight, guys. You really helped me get perspective I wouldn't have gotten just by rerunning a mathematical analysis of the hand. Much appreciated.

Vallet · Jul 25, 2020

You should keep in mind that many players enter freerolls to push at random. The chances of getting QQ vs KK or KK vs AA are very small. If the all-in preflop didn't happen and you went to the flop, you would still be ruined set vs set.

thehangdude · Jul 25, 2020

I had a freeroll last night with a similar situation. UTG limps, I 3XBB bet, someone shoves, UTG folds. I had KK and villain shows 99. Unfortunately, a 9 hit the flop for the end of my night.

In freerolls, there is no way to know if a shoving villain has AA or Axs or 77. You can fold every time and stay in the game a while longer, or you can call and maybe continue the game with twice the chips. Every pre flop all in holds a chance for you to lose. I think QQ is a good time to risk it.

johnoman · Jul 26, 2020

Easy call for me too.

No way I am folding that hand I think you played this hand very well preflop.

fundiver199 · Jul 26, 2020

thehangdude said:
In freerolls, there is no way to know if a shoving villain has AA or Axs or 77. You can fold every time and stay in the game a while longer, or you can call and maybe continue the game with twice the chips. Every pre flop all in holds a chance for you to lose. I think QQ is a good time to risk it.

Exactly. And the same concept apply to postflop, when you have a certain hand strenght, and stacks are somewhat short, as they quickly get in freerolls. My last freeroll finished like this after 11 hands, and this is not something, I lose sleep over. Sure I would have loved to cash, but its unlikely, that getting away from top pair second kicker will lead to cashing, when blinds go up every 3 minutes.

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/9a1xgPMR

Drake2 · Jul 26, 2020

the secret is to be safe in the beginning and aggressive in the end!

CullinanPoker · Jul 26, 2020

Easy call for me in a free roll, especially early.

1player2 · Jul 27, 2020

marcoslopezbl said:
So, I'm getting heat from some friends about the way I played this hand.

Early stage of Intertops freeroll, pretty loose play at this point, plenty of casual players around. BB is 20 chips with stacks in the 2000s. I'm at SB, UTG limps in, field folds and I raise 3BB. BB goes all in with 1.7k chips, UTG folds.

I have QQ and thought this was a cold call, but after seeing BB's hand (KK) and the flop (K2Q) a couple of friends claimed I should have folded. Nonsense, right?

Hello,

Freeroll Poker and casual maniacs make this an easy call. I agree with you.
Coolered

$Freeroll NLHE MTT: Ran into All-in KK

marcoslopezbl

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