$Freeroll NLHE MTT: Call or not call

EvertonGirl

EvertonGirl

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Is this a call or not a call. According pot odds it's a call because I am way priced in I was getting close to 5 to 1 but I was risking 18% of my stack.

Now I know that you can call ATC if you are risking 10% or less but what about 18%... Is it just the pot odds or do you take your stack size into account.

Pot odds getting slightly under 5 to 1 = Yes to call with ATC
Stack size risking 18% = ??
 

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Iryna Stryzheuskaya

Iryna Stryzheuskaya

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For me, this is an easy fold
 
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ph_il

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How did you get 5:1? You're getting ~2.4:1 to call here.

Super easy fold. You are almost always behind in this situation. 102 is definitely not a hand to be calling a shove with. Shoving with, is completely different, but definitely not calling.

As a short stack yourself, you need to need to call of a chunk of your stack in -EV calls like this. Fold and a find a better spot to shove/call off.
 
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Brandom1

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In all honesty I would begrudgingly agree with most everyone else here but one thing to consider is what kind of hands does this person play...is shoving with any two? is he just bluffing you off the hand so he can take a free pot? But 9 out of 10x I would definitely fold...
 
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marnburger

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I'm 50/50 tbh, you're definitely not getting 5-1, more like 3-1, and it's only 1.7 BB to call, which is all good for a call. They have under 3BB which puts me in two minds about their range, means they've been tight waiting for a hand, however they are now UTG so last chance at open shoving, so could (read should) be ATC. It's a lot of your stack but then your stack is pretty small, losing this doesn't really change that much, you'd be left with 8BB rather than 9.5BB which puts a double up to 16BB or 19BB, not much difference. You're still needing a double up or two and lots of blind steals to get back in this.

Hang on, I've just realised this is FT and you're third in chips, right? I'd probably fold lol
 
EvertonGirl

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How did you get 5:1? You're getting ~2.4:1 to call here.

Super easy fold. You are almost always behind in this situation. 102 is definitely not a hand to be calling a shove with. Shoving with, is completely different, but definitely not calling.

As a short stack yourself, you need to need to call of a chunk of your stack in -EV calls like this. Fold and a find a better spot to shove/call off.

LOL. I had a brainfart, I didn't devide what I had to call... I devided 1600 into the pot instead of 2695 :D I now get my pot odds at 3 - 1. I did fold this hand but wasn't sure if I made the right move, as I remember playing in the pokeronline school home game and the tutor said I should of called a shove from the shortstack with ATC when I was in the BB because I was priced in, but I can't remember what my stack was, just that I had a decent size stack. He said it was a terrible fold!! I can't find the hand as my tracker decided not to work for play money games that day (typical) so I can't go over it!

Later on I was playing in a CC game on PP and was in the BB and called a short stack shove, I think I had J3o and I knocked the SS out. I was then asked if my call was a misclick by another player at the table and I said no and said I was told I should be calling with ATC in situations like this, to be honest I cant remember what the odds were offering that day. The guy then said oh I see, but you should only be risking 10% or less of your stack. So that is why I am thinking it has to be PO's and 10% or less??

A while later in another pokerschool online game I had about 8 bbs and I get ATs UTG so I shove and BB called with T4o, he was risking 14% of his stack. We both flopped a T and he turned a 4, I said nh and good call as you are only risking 14% of your stack, he then said it has nothing to do with stack sizes just pot odds. So can you see my confusion!? I feel like banging my head on the wall... I am like how can it not be about stack sizes!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

It has been baffling me for a while now, as I am still no wiser with it.:D

I think I will call these situations only if I get 2 - 1 and risking 10% or under when I have them well and truly covered and fold like I did today when I am as short as I was.

For the guy who said this was a FT, no it was my table for ITM :)
 
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trent32la

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Call it off, you need 25% equity and V is forced to shove much lighter than usual due to the BB hitting him next hand.

OSMB - How is this call -EV at all? And even if it is -EV to call our stack size shouldn't really matter unless there is some EV to be gained from busting that player.
 
Gabinho12345

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I would call with 10 2 for sure and I think I would call with any two cards.
 
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Gerb

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https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/tournaments-expected-value-247552/

Your question is ultimately about pot odds vs survival, and how much value you are willing to give up on an individual hand so that you don't risk busting. I asked a similar question a while ago, and ended up getting pointed towards this thread. It talks about the value of survival, about the difference between chip EV an $ EV in a tourny. It may give you a bit more confidence when trying to figure out these spots.
 
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trent32la

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Assuming UTG jams a range of: 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J5s+,T6s+,95s+,86s+,76s,65s,A2o+,K2o+,Q5o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o

We have 32.9% equity and this is indeed a call.

Even if I give UTG a rather tight range of: 22+,A2s+,K5s+,Q5s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A2o+,K9o+,Q8o+,J9o+,T9o

We still have 30.8% equity and this is a call.
 
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marnburger

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Ok so not FT, I don't play stars and suddenly saw the "crowd" in the background. I'd call this for the reasons I said before. Trent32la explains the equity well, that first range I reckon is pretty spot on.

Another factor to consider when you're not sure about calling these is what the players like. If they're a weak player maybe having them at the table still is not so bad.

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule of x:1 pot odds and y% of stack. Needs to be situation/player dependant as always. Until FT where ICM comes much more into play.
 
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HoRNaTioN

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How did you get 5:1? You're getting ~2.4:1 to call here.

Super easy fold. You are almost always behind in this situation. 102 is definitely not a hand to be calling a shove with. Shoving with, is completely different, but definitely not calling.

As a short stack yourself, you need to need to call of a chunk of your stack in -EV calls like this. Fold and a find a better spot to shove/call off.



The pot is almost 8k. 5:1...
 
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raymondzav

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You got to fold that bs unless you want to gamble. That's what it is like playing baccarat
 
EvertonGirl

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Thanks guys now I know I should of called.

Thanks as always trent. I unistalled the equity calculator on the laptop as I opened it once when pokerstars was running and I got a warning. I wasn't playing while I did it I wanted to check I made the right decision earlier.

I often forget about equity being 25% when you get 3-1 to call and I just think about my stack size getting smaller if I lose but marnburger made it clear it really doesn't matter at this point as I needing to DU anyway, so from now on in these situations these are calls :)
 
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JesusHMazzei

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Is this a call or not a call. According pot odds it's a call because I am way priced in I was getting close to 5 to 1 but I was risking 18% of my stack.

Now I know that you can call ATC if you are risking 10% or less but what about 18%... Is it just the pot odds or do you take your stack size into account.

Pot odds getting slightly under 5 to 1 = Yes to call with ATC
Stack size risking 18% = ??
I dont see the 5:1 pot odds here... I think its below 3:1, and with that hand i'd even fold 5:1. I mean maybe if the villain was super loose or something but still... I T2 is something id only play if i get a free flop on the BB
 
EvertonGirl

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I dont see the 5:1 pot odds here... I think its below 3:1, and with that hand i'd even fold 5:1. I mean maybe if the villain was super loose or something but still... I T2 is something id only play if i get a free flop on the BB

Look above, I made an error in my calculations. It is below, it is 2.95 but you have to round it up to 3 - 1 which is 25% and I was probably getting 30-32%

It is actually a call by +EV which I can see now, I always see it after the event, especially when Trent explains it to me :)
 
EvertonGirl

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Ok so not FT, I don't play stars and suddenly saw the "crowd" in the background. I'd call this for the reasons I said before. Trent32la explains the equity well, that first range I reckon is pretty spot on.

Another factor to consider when you're not sure about calling these is what the players like. If they're a weak player maybe having them at the table still is not so bad.

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule of x:1 pot odds and y% of stack. Needs to be situation/player dependant as always. Until FT where ICM comes much more into play.

I thought that was where you thought I was at the final table :)

My crowd cheering is because we made a ITM finish which I also change the table black and if I get to a FT the table is blue with the spot lights as the background :D I watch too much twitch :D It is great for multi tabling :)
 
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JesusHMazzei

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Look above, I made an error in my calculations. It is below, it is 2.95 but you have to round it up to 3 - 1 which is 25% and I was probably getting 30-32%

It is actually a call by +EV which I can see now, I always see it after the event, especially when Trent explains it to me :)
Sorry, i didnt see the previous responses. My bad [emoji28]
 
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bumerangue

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Considering you are at the FT, maybe you should call because of the ICM, it may be correct, I guess that I would fold this only if I was the short stack and in bubble time
 
EvertonGirl

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Considering you are at the FT, maybe you should call because of the ICM, it may be correct, I guess that I would fold this only if I was the short stack and in bubble time

It is NOT a FT, it is my table for ITM.

Read peoples comment as well as my first post, there are some great input.
 
EvertonGirl

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So if this situation had been I was getting 2-1 I would need 33% to call, so this would mean I should be folding or can you still call here??
 
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