€55 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: The dumbest mistake I ever made in poker

This one will hurt. This was an outright chip dump. I just want to know what you guys think and what would be a better way (if any) to go about it. I know the most common response will be "You played it horribly". I've been beating myself up internally and reviewing this hand for two days now, I want to see it discussed anyway.

Now. I did not pay to join this tournament. The website I play on has a daily "wheel of fortune" which kind of allows you to play for free. Most of the times you land into a freeroll spot, and if you get top 200 there you gain access to a 5€ ticket. I have won 80€ in one night by getting on those 200 and then playing a 5€ tournament right away and finishing 6th. But once in a while you land into a 55€ ticket. That's how I got the ticket. I'm just saying that because after this play some of you will wonder how the heck I'm playing at these stakes. This is how. I'm regularly a break-even player at NL2.

OK. Moving on. Field of 100 players. 27th gets paid. 28 players left. I am sitting on 7th with 50-60BBs. I have all the remaining 4 tables open to check out who goes all-in and celebrate. The fact that there have been a few all-ins where the person doubles up or it's split has been undoubtedly tilting me and it's a factor on what happens next.

I catch myself on the CO with A6s. Folded to me. I raise. BU calls. SB folds, BB folds. Flop comes 77A. I check. Guy bets 1/3.

Here's what goes through my mind in the next few seconds, I remember it quite well. The play I'm about to make here had nothing to do with poker. I didn't play this way because I thought he would make a certain decision. What I thought was: I'm blocking an Ace and I'm kind of certain most of his calling range pre doesn't include a 7. So he doesn't have trips. He either has an Ace or a pocket pair. The pot is pretty big and I could certainly use these ~10+BBs in the pot by now going into ITM.

Now for the second part of my thinking. We're in the bubble. 1 way away from the money. How willing is he to risk his stack without a 7? Plus, if I risk my stack right now, he must think I have a 7. Why else would I shove my entire stack into this pot? And he might always have a pocket pair and call with it.

I shoved.

I shoved 60BBs one place away from the money.

He calls. Shows AK. I bust the bubble.

Two questions. One being: how dumb was this play and my overall thinking? Second question: is there any way I should keep playing this hand? Taking the bubble thing into consideration, I should probably have folded pre-flop and wait for the bust. Lesson learned. Only playing QQ+ and AK from now on on that spot. But having played the hand, would there be a better way to go on about it? I've been thinking if a 2 to 3x raise here would have been a better idea (and probably would have seemed stronger too). It would give me the same amount of information and I'd still have an above-average stack to get ITM. I could also call and recheck the whole thing on the Turn, check/folding if he bet again. Another reason I made this play is because I really suck at balancing against floating. I'm aware I'm being exploited every time I check/call flop with anything less than top pair/good kicker (or c-bet and get called without top pair/good kicker) because I'm going to fold that Turn 100% of the time if unimproved. This happens in MTTs and in cash games. I shoved partly because I didn't want to face a bet Turn.

Okay. This is it. Probably the most expensive mistake I have ever made in poker so far, assuming it cost me the 100€ (at least, since I was in a good position to wait for all the craziness after the bubble) paid to 27th. Thoughts?

EDIT: I totally messed up the positions.

Hi Bro, You should have folded pre-flop and wait for the bubble to burst, but If that is your style, then e-njoy the excitement! :hmmmm2:

I would have called flop and re-evaluated turn. Not expecting him to bet again without better Ace or Seven.

I do generally like you logic, but regardless of what your logic is, he called anyways :/

You can just call and not inflate the pot. You don’t need to play tight just not try to make mistakes. You don’t accomplish anything with that shove. If you’re beat, he’s calling. If you’re ahead, then calling will make you more money. Merging an in between hand doesn’t accomplish anything.

Shoving would imply that you don't have a 7 and are trying to protect your hand somehow by inducing a fold. Too bad the villain woke up with a stronger ace and no way was he folding, because the way you played was not how a player with 7s would play on the bubble. It's nice to play it exactly that way if you do have a 7, because nobody would believe you.. but I digress.

What was your raise sizing and what was your villain's stack size? I know you made mention of some kind of interpretation of what your villain had based on their action, but you left out the details of stack sizes and bet sizing pre-flop.

puzzlefish said:

What was your raise sizing and what was your villain's stack size? I know you made mention of some kind of interpretation of what your villain had based on their action, but you left out the details of stack sizes and bet sizing pre-flop.

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I don't remember exactly how many BBs he had (and the poker room doesn't give me any hand history) but he had me covered and then some. Probably around +10BBs than me. So maybe ~70BBs. And yea this makes my thinking a even more on the off side because this guy isn't that worried we are on the bubble since there are people in our table very desperate with 5BBs, so it would be pretty hard to scare him off the hand. He can lose and still probably get ITM by waiting.

My raise pre was 3BB. I know the recommended is 2 - 2.5BB but for some reason I've always felt comfortable with 3BB and I play my entire opening range that way, whether for value or bluff.

Thanks for your input!!

EDIT: These BB numbers seem a bit inflamed the more I think about it. I certainly remember me being well above the average stack because I tend to keep track of that even though I means it doesn't mean much. And we were very much above 20BBs because that's the number I keep in mind before going shove/fold. I said 60BBs originally because at the time I think that's what a quick mental operation turned out, but now that I start thinking about the numbers they start seeming implausible. Anyway we were both extremely deep stacked. I had 400k chips, he had 500k+, and I remember two people at the table having so little as 15-20k because I was keep tracking on those and they could still survive a few more BB rounds without being eaten

1 away from the bubble and I am folding that hand preflop.

Preflop: With so many big blinds you should play loose and aggressive poker here, so raising with A6s is standard. However, not 3bb. If you raise 3bb only then your range overall must be tighter, A6s will not yield 3bb+, so it becomes fold. I think you should stop thinking what is comfortable and start doing what is right. Use smaller sizing.

Flop: This flop is extremely good for you, since you have AA, 77, A7s, 87s, 76s, AK, AQ... And villain shouldn't have most of these hands, because these hands should be in his 3bet range. Since you have such a huge nuts advantage, you should bet your entire range here. Since board is dry you can use smaller sizing, around half pot. Checking is meh, but is not that terrible. When you check and villain bets, it's easy call. Your check raise size doesn't make sense at all, so it's very hard to construct a proper range here. Nobody check raises 7 with that sizing, so you are effectively widening villain's calling range. And on top of that you are risking your tournament life. But let's assume you raise for some reason 7x hand like that. You shouldn't, but let's assume for hand analysis reasons.You check raise with 87 ( combos), 76 (2 combos) and 77 (1 combo). When you put all in here, you should have little less than 1:2 bluff to value ratio. So for every to value hands you should have little less than 1 bluff. You have 5 value hands, so effectively should have 2 bluffs. And because your raise is so big, and there are no draws, you should choose super weak hand that blocks 7. We need to think about blockers, so let's assume suits for the flop. Let's say flop is Ah7c7d. There is no point in blocking 8c, because 7c is on the board, villain can't have 87cc anyway. So you want to have 8h, 8s. So, you should bluff with 98hh, 98ss. Here you go, these are your two bluffing hands. Bluffing with A6 is obviously super bad, because you have so much showdown value. You are heavily overbluffing and not balanced in this spot. I think you could call on the flop and check-raise all in on the turn. That would be more convincing.

Preflop A6 is one of the worst aces to have in your hand A2-5 are much better bluff candidates because of their straight draw potential .

The flop if you really did have a 7 your probably only really having A7s 87s or 67s why would you shove all in with it your giving him the chance to get away so if you played a 7 that way it would be bad. A7 would only surely call there you've got the board locked up with only AA beating you. Check call would be the best play and then if he continues to show aggression on the turn you can look to get away. Overall you put yourself in a position you didn't need to.

Don't beat yourself up we've all tried plays that haven't worked it happens move on and good luck at the tables

I think, its fine to open A6s from CO, but postflop you need to pot control and not go broke with a marginal hand like this.

Only problem here is because you were annoyed, and tilted, because someone with 5bb didn’t bust. You got 60bb, one spot to cash, played for I don’t know how many hours, and put all your stack on a hand like A6 against the man who can end your tournament life. There is nothing to analyse here. You need to read something about bubble play, and next time think better. People throw away AA sometimes in situation like this. You said you are micro stakes player, how many buy ins did you throw with your tilted play? I’m sorry that happened to you, but be smarter next time, and in the bubble don’t play against people who can bust you.

popstani said:

I’m sorry that happened to you, but be smarter next time, and in the bubble don’t play against people who can bust you.

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We cant completely shy away from playing against someone, who have us covered. Then we end up bleeding chips away on every single bubble just to get a mini-cash, which is reality is fairly unimportant in the long run. The profit in tournament comes from finishing in top 3-5 not from mini-cashing.

We can however pot control and not overplay our hand. If this case its fine to open A6s from CO and then we can just check-call his small flop bet. If he start to bomb it, then we can get away later. Or if he continue to bet small or even check back, we can get to showdown, and either way we survive with most of our stack.

Or we can even hero call, if we think, he is acting like a "chip bully". In that case we at least keep his bluffing range alive, whereas when we check-jam and get action, we are turning our hand into a value bluff. This is just really bad, and not just because it was on the bubble.

fundiver199 said:

We cant completely shy away from playing against someone, who have us covered. Then we end up bleeding chips away on every single bubble just to get a mini-cash, which is reality is fairly unimportant in the long run. The profit in tournament comes from finishing in top 3-5 not from mini-cashing.

We can however pot control and not overplay our hand. If this case its fine to open A6s from CO and then we can just check-call his small flop bet. If he start to bomb it, then we can get away later. Or if he continue to bet small or even check back, we can get to showdown, and either way we survive with most of our stack.

Or we can even hero call, if we think, he is acting like a "chip bully". In that case we at least keep his bluffing range alive, whereas when we check-jam and get action, we are turning our hand into a value bluff. This is just really bad, and not just because it was on the bubble.

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He played from zero to almost hero, meaning , if you have read original post, he played from freeroll to 55€ ticket and have opportunity to score some cash, probably around 100€ for min cash. With 60bb in the bubble he had really enough chips and time to survive bubble and even to run deeper in the tournament, and to go on the final table. I’m telling this because I’m to a micro stakes player and have really big experience with situation like this. Why is so important to take min cash? Because it’s 100 buy in for 1€ tournaments. To be a good player you have to respect money and hard work first( grinding freerolls is really hard work, I know that) then you can think that only first 3 places are worth of playing

Usually people throw bad attention haunted tree before itm playing. If you have the right to strike is not chipleader. After a dangerous throw Flop nuts is correct.

popstani said:

Why is so important to take min cash? Because it’s 100 buy in for 1€ tournaments. To be a good player you have to respect money and hard work first( grinding freerolls is really hard work, I know that) then you can think that only first 3 places are worth of playing

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Just coming in to say there's no way I would have spent that money on poker. I cashed out on a FT in a 5€ tournament (won that one too, in a freeroll), by getting 5th and cashing 70€. Spent it in a period of 1.5-2 months by going out to have dinner and drinks with my college classmates, and that would be the fate that awaited this prize as well if I got it.

Either that or I would save it, win 2-3 more tournaments, and buy myself a nice watch without having to reach into savings.

Would not play with it either way. I've had the same 20€ bankroll for months and have been only able to grow it into 30 only to have it drop down to 20 the next night and I'm convinced it will go like this for years without any more money being thrown into it.

Well first of all, the fact that you know it was a mistake and asking questions here to learn shows that you're willing to learn and hopefully it turns you into a profitable player.
When you said, 'Plus, if I risk my stack right now, he must think I have a 7. Why else would I shove my entire stack into this pot?', that was irrational.
If you indeed had the 7 or even A7, you wouldn't have shoved. That was probably what was going on in the villain's mind as even if you had a 7, you would have likely let him continue betting by simply calling on flop, turn, and then re raising on river or already have on the turn.
The better line to take would have been to call on flop and then maybe once more on turn but villain would most likely check back on turn incase you had the 7.

popstani said:

He played from zero to almost hero, meaning , if you have read original post, he played from freeroll to 55€ ticket and have opportunity to score some cash, probably around 100€ for min cash. With 60bb in the bubble he had really enough chips and time to survive bubble and even to run deeper in the tournament, and to go on the final table. I’m telling this because I’m to a micro stakes player and have really big experience with situation like this. Why is so important to take min cash? Because it’s 100 buy in for 1€ tournaments. To be a good player you have to respect money and hard work first( grinding freerolls is really hard work, I know that) then you can think that only first 3 places are worth of playing

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fundiver199 said:

If the money is really important to your bankroll and/or personal situation, then it is fine to give up some long term EV to secure a min-cash. I also do that sometimes. But 60BB is plenty enough to play without always risking your entire stack. Moreover Hero presumably had the two players in the blinds covered, so he could apply a lot of pressure to them. It was just unfortunate, that it was the player on BTN, how woke up with a hand and called. But this will not happen all the time, and if we sense, that he is taking advantage of the situation and pushing us around, then that is the time, we can go into lock-down mode, until the bubble has burst. ​

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Exactly, totally agree with you

ilostmysoul said:

This one will hurt. This was an outright chip dump. I just want to know what you guys think and what would be a better way (if any) to go about it. I know the most common response will be "You played it horribly". I've been beating myself up internally and reviewing this hand for two days now, I want to see it discussed anyway.

I'm regularly a break-even player at NL2.


I catch myself on the CO with A6s. Folded to me. I raise. BU calls. SB folds, BB folds. Flop comes 77A. I check. Guy bets 1/3.

Here's what goes through my mind in the next few seconds, I remember it quite well. The play I'm about to make here had nothing to do with poker. I didn't play this way because I thought he would make a certain decision. What I thought was: I'm blocking an Ace and I'm kind of certain most of his calling range pre doesn't include a 7. So he doesn't have trips. He either has an Ace or a pocket pair. The pot is pretty big and I could certainly use these ~10+BBs in the pot by now going into ITM.

Now for the second part of my thinking. We're in the bubble. 1 way away from the money. How willing is he to risk his stack without a 7? Plus, if I risk my stack right now, he must think I have a 7. Why else would I shove my entire stack into this pot? And he might always have a pocket pair and call with it.

I shoved.

I shoved 60BBs one place away from the money.

He calls. Shows AK. I bust the bubble.

Two questions. One being: how dumb was this play and my overall thinking? Second question: is there any way I should keep playing this hand? Taking the bubble thing into consideration, I should probably have folded pre-flop and wait for the bust. Lesson learned. Onl

Okay. This is it. Probably the most expensive mistake I have ever made in poker so far, assuming it cost me the 100€ (at least, since I was in a good position to wait for all the craziness after the bubble) paid to 27th. Thoughts?

EDIT: I totally messed up the positions.

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Thank U 4 Posting.

"The play I'm about to make here had nothing to do with poker"

You are right it was tilt. Tilt is not just anger it is also fear, pride, over confidence, etc etc.

The key is, this was not a rational action on your part it was an emotional action rationalized by you. You only thought of all the hands this shove would work against but all those hands are hands we get value from so why would we rationally shove vs them? We would not, so this is not a rational action, so it is tilt.

You know it was a bad play now because you are no longer on tilt so you are rational now.

My point to all of this is we always have to watch for possible tilt situations and address them prior to being tilted. Being on the bubble of a (big for us) tournament is a tilt inflection point.

Jared Tendler has 2 great books "The Mental Game of Poker" Vol 1/2
Reading these and working on the strategies in them would help you significantly.

Hope this helps