Do you fold Aks 1st hand of the game???

I really hate this hand, I mean, I FKN hate It. I can't seem to play It well enough to win with It, It's either behind a pair or It's racing or they have "live cards", yet It just seems like I'm getting too involved with It early on.

So I want to hear from the rest of the CC members, should we just fold It If we have like 75bbs? I mean seriously, the game just started, and I had to already be put Into such a place because I decided to call of with It, and It didn't work.


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php



saw flop | saw showdown

Button (t2,505)
SB (t2,895)
BB (t1,665)
UTG (t2,955)
UTG+1 (t1,230)
Hero (MP1) (t2,940)
MP2 (t3,000)
MP3 (t12,810)
CO (t2,985)

Hero's M: 65.33

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A , K
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, Hero raises to t90, 1 fold, MP3 calls t90, 3 folds, BB raises to t1,665 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero raises to t2,940 (All-In), 1 fold

Flop: (t3,465) 9 , 2 , 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (t3,465) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t3,465) Q (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t3,465
Main pot: t3,465 between BB and Hero, won by BB

Results below:

If it's a tournament I really want to win ( big prize pool, KO, etc... ) and I get AK I will easily fold it past a 3 bet. I hate going all in with AK. I also see people way to often "donk bet" AK on the flop when it didn't hit.
Emotionally people attribute a huge commitment to AK. It's just another hand.

Now being low stacked, or short handed at a final table is way different.

Also all of the above depends heavily on the read you have on the table, your position, etc...

dturner100 said:

If it's a tournament I really want to win ( big prize pool, KO, etc... ) and I get AK I will easily fold it past a 3 bet. I hate going all in with AK. I also see people way to often "donk bet" AK on the flop when it didn't hit.
Emotionally people attribute a huge commitment to AK. It's just another hand.

Now being low stacked, or short handed at a final table is way different.

Also all of the above depends heavily on the read you have on the table, your position, etc...

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We had no reads, as It was literally the 1st hand for me at that table and It was a "Super Progressive" MTT, so I wanted to A) win the bounty but I also wanted to start building stack. Now I mean calling of for 30+bigs Is IMO too much to call yet again It's FKN AKs too boot. Yet It's as you stated, I fall In love with that hand, and It usually crushes my soul

I hear you dude. I'm an old dog. Been playing long before I was legally able to and I still catch myself playing hands emotionally.

Well it's a pretty sick beat for a start...

Always tough to decide what to do early on... I don't think it was a bad call you out stack him and he had already lost half his chips early doors so possibly a bit fishy with no early info... It's hard to let AK go... they can be your best friend or stab you in the back... I honestly don't know if I'd fold there... I'd probably have called

There is absolutely no reason for you to call off 55BBs with AKs preflop that early in the tournament. You winning those extra 55BBs is not that crucial this point in the tournament.

Preflop, I like the PFR. While you aren't trying to build a huge pot with AKs preflop, it's still a strong hand you should raise for value and to isolate. After BB shoves, just let it go. You have plenty of chips to fold and wait for a better situation.

philthy said:

There is absolutely no reason for you to call off 55BBs with AKs preflop that early in the tournament. You winning those extra 55BBs is not that crucial this point in the tournament.

Preflop, I like the PFR. While you aren't trying to build a huge pot with AKs preflop, it's still a strong hand you should raise for value and to isolate. After BB shoves, just let it go. You have plenty of chips to fold and wait for a better situation.

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Best point made is above. The chips you gain are insignificant overall. But that doesnt make it wrong.

Being that it was an open shove mass overbet, you have to assume a superfish and the range dictates a call. As it turns out the call was correct, and the read was too (that it was a fishy bet) you just got super unlucky. In the future I would probably make that call again and again...range theory says its the right thing to do.

If your aim is to win the tourney call call call every time here. If you just want to cash then fold.

Dont confuse the issue of AKs here, you made the right call, dont let the massive outdraw deter you from doing it again in the future. Remember tournaments are about ALWAYS doing the right thing and eventually winning, you only need to win one of 50 big mtts (or so-based on 150-200 entrants) to make out.

In a cash game obviously you fold unless your a super action junkie and have a huge roll.

I would have folded without notes, but calling only if I was sure that villain shove with any two cards.

horizon12 said:

I would have folded without notes, but calling only if I was sure that villain shove with any two cards.

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I think the only note you need is the size of the bet. MOST cases this is a donk play to double up early. Id say about 80% of the time. Therefore the move is call.

Can't win tournaments without winning some races. This is a fistpump snap call with bounties.

Also, this isn't the first hand of the tournament even if its your first vpip.

Of course A-K is a good starting hand. But it's not a made hand. You whiff the flop, and now you're just folding Ace high with a nice kicker. It's strong enough for a pre-flop raise. And even strong enough to call a pre-flop raise with up to a point. Once I see players start getting carried away and jamming their stacks in pre-flop, I'm probably folding anything smaller than pocket Jacks. At that point calling with A-K is just gambling. Being a poker player myself, I find it more beneficial in the long run to lay it down, let the donkeys donk it out and gather any information I can from watching the hand play out.

I don't see a problem with a call there. It looks like it was early in a tournament with 3k starting stacks and the villain had already lost almost half his stack, so you could have some reason to believe he was a little bit spewy. Plus even if you lose, you've still got almost 1,300 chips (more than 40 BB at that juncture with bb at 30). Plenty of time to make a comeback.

Oh man AK all-in in blinds 15/30 - it's death for your chips, you bust out so early. I'm feel with AK very unconfident, and when villain goes all-in you should fold this hand. I call only with KK, or AA i fold even JJ, QQ 'cause on blinds 15/30 - it's throwin' chips away, and your opponent goes with QK off from BB???!!!, playin' like a bingo man.

AK is strongest preflop...post flop, it's just another hand to fold to a C-bet.

So half of the ppl In this thread are for a call and the other half are for a fold, lol. Got to love AK, such a hand and we can't agree on It . Don't get me wrong I'll make the same call as long as I can afford the loss, now If I can't afford It, than It becomes that much harder to make that call. Assume If It was on the FT bubble? If for half my stack (I don't know) since I want to have enough chips In my arsenal on FT to apply pressure. Again If It was on the bubble of an MTT again, I depends If I can afford the loss. Under 20bbs easily make that call, If I have 50+bbs, If for 50+bbs and I have 50+bbs different situation, also player dependant and so forth and so on.

Was certainly interesting reading all the reply's though, thanks everyone

I mean you got it in good, you were ahead, and he sucked out, not much you can do. If you don't want to be flipping early then you could choose to fold, but I wouldn't.

AK is usualy a overrated cards , they are strong but you dont have nothing ( pair of deuces are stronger )If you miss the flop , they worth nothing

Pretty sick beat but no reason to avoid playing just because people doesn't have reads on you. Though it's probably a fold. Given the position he raised and the massive 5-OVER-bet, you should've folded though.

Frontiere said:

AK is usualy a overrated cards , they are strong but you dont have nothing ( pair of deuces are stronger )If you miss the flop , they worth nothing

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Best definition imo is made by SplitSuit. You don't raise AK pre for value like most people think. You raise it for semi-bluff (cash games). This is a pretty important concept that people should stick to their heads before overcalling them. I think they are solid semi-bluff cards on the flop too, in position, though. AK OOP sucks hard.

detroitjunkie said:

Best point made is above. The chips you gain are insignificant overall. But that doesnt make it wrong.

Being that it was an open shove mass overbet, you have to assume a superfish and the range dictates a call. As it turns out the call was correct, and the read was too (that it was a fishy bet) you just got super unlucky. In the future I would probably make that call again and again...range theory says its the right thing to do.

If your aim is to win the tourney call call call every time here. If you just want to cash then fold.

Dont confuse the issue of AKs here, you made the right call, dont let the massive outdraw deter you from doing it again in the future. Remember tournaments are about ALWAYS doing the right thing and eventually winning, you only need to win one of 50 big mtts (or so-based on 150-200 entrants) to make out.

In a cash game obviously you fold unless your a super action junkie and have a huge roll.

Click to expand...

naruto_miu said:

So half of the ppl In this thread are for a call and the other half are for a fold, lol. Got to love AK, such a hand and we can't agree on It . Don't get me wrong I'll make the same call as long as I can afford the loss, now If I can't afford It, than It becomes that much harder to make that call. Assume If It was on the FT bubble? If for half my stack (I don't know) since I want to have enough chips In my arsenal on FT to apply pressure. Again If It was on the bubble of an MTT again, I depends If I can afford the loss. Under 20bbs easily make that call, If I have 50+bbs, If for 50+bbs and I have 50+bbs different situation, also player dependant and so forth and so on.

Was certainly interesting reading all the reply's though, thanks everyone

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And probably half the responses are from losing players who don't know what they're talking about.
Honestly the only answer you need to read is the one I posted here from 'detroitjunkie'.. READ it.. and then why even read the rest? (unless perhaps to gain a perspective on.. 'what are they thinking '

still I had to fold. it's just an ace and a king and not a pair of kings and aces

First hand of the tournament with lots of all ins in front of you...yes fold. Watch what the pros do in big tournaments, things like showing up late, not even sitting down, until the crazies are eliminated. Every hand including AA is folded by default, the pro is not even at the table yet, makes me think, how about you?

Definitely a bad beat, but still not a great call. you have plenty of chips to get into a better spot later on when the chips become more valuable. Additionally, AK is still behind to any paired hand, so even if the villain is pushing with 2-2, you are still statistically behind. To be fair, enough donks aren't going to push with less than that, KQ is the very edge of that all in range and you had it dominated, but typically you are up against a better hand, and often, a better hand than your drawing hand.

dont think you should fold it, but maybe try some pot control lines

another thing to do is look at the villans in the hand and dont stack off to a nit with ace high

I'd call if it didnt hurt my BR. Even knowing that my chances are not so high